Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-12-2008, 11:55 PM   #166
Veteran Member
KungPOW's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,702
QuoteOriginally posted by raider Quote
I think pentax FF in 2009 is highly unlikely. I think the chance is less than 1%. If I am proven wrong, I will be damned

I'm going to go with the oposite tack.

I like new technology. And I like cameras. New technology and cameras get me drooling.

So I was really down (not the good "down") about the Pentax showing at Photokina. Pentax just did not have enough "tech" presence.

But I am getting over my disapointment, and with PMA 80 some odd days away, I'm starting to feel the hype again!

So, Pentax plans to release 3 DSLR bodies, that would mean no change to the K-m, the K200D becomes a K200D super, the K20D becomes the K20D super.....

And that leaves an open spot at the top for the LXD! (or the K3D, or K1D, or...)

So I'm going to start believing that Pentax is on the verge of releasing their 135 format camera. I am going to believe that it was marketing genius that held Pentax back from releaseing their FF uber shooter at Photokina. They let Canikonony fight for the spot light, and Pentax held back, letting the other three fight it out for media love. This I believe.

I'm going to start hoping for the ultimate Pentax LXD camera to be released for PMA 2009. No let me rephraise...I KNOW they are going to release the FF uber Pentax at PMA 2009.

-------------------

Just as a side note, I need something to get excited about.
Work is stressful.
My investments have tanked.
The golie for my hockey team is injured.
My favorite football player has been released and has re-signed with another team , in the same division.


I'm not looking for anything logical here. Just something to get jazzed about. pentax, please don't make me live my techno-camera-fetish fantasy through Canikon.

12-13-2008, 12:53 AM   #167
Site Supporter
Rorschach's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kuusamo, Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 598
QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'm going to go with the oposite tack.

I like new technology. And I like cameras. New technology and cameras get me drooling.

So I was really down (not the good "down") about the Pentax showing at Photokina. Pentax just did not have enough "tech" presence.

But I am getting over my disapointment, and with PMA 80 some odd days away, I'm starting to feel the hype again!

So, Pentax plans to release 3 DSLR bodies, that would mean no change to the K-m, the K200D becomes a K200D super, the K20D becomes the K20D super.....

And that leaves an open spot at the top for the LXD! (or the K3D, or K1D, or...)

So I'm going to start believing that Pentax is on the verge of releasing their 135 format camera. I am going to believe that it was marketing genius that held Pentax back from releaseing their FF uber shooter at Photokina. They let Canikonony fight for the spot light, and Pentax held back, letting the other three fight it out for media love. This I believe.

I'm going to start hoping for the ultimate Pentax LXD camera to be released for PMA 2009. No let me rephraise...I KNOW they are going to release the FF uber Pentax at PMA 2009.

-------------------

Just as a side note, I need something to get excited about.
Work is stressful.
My investments have tanked.
The golie for my hockey team is injured.
My favorite football player has been released and has re-signed with another team , in the same division.


I'm not looking for anything logical here. Just something to get jazzed about. pentax, please don't make me live my techno-camera-fetish fantasy through Canikon.
Hopefully you are right about these. Above all I'm waiting for the version with built-in GPS but a I'd also get a full frame LXD / medium format 645D after waiting for prices to drop a little.

Reply to your hockey sidenote: the Canucks are actually doing quite well even without Luongo. I believe your Finnish D Sami Salo is also injured. I love the guy, he's got a great slapshot but unfortunately he's got a groin made of glass as well.

Regards,
Boucicaut
12-13-2008, 01:41 AM   #168
Pentaxian
raider's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,931
Well I would be very happy if Pentax released their FF bodies.

Bit I would also think that if FF is part of Pentax's strategy move, surely they would have announced plans to release more FF lenses to match the FF bodies?

Currently I guess not that many of the DA* and DA lenses are FF ready? I know my DA14 and my cheap zooms like DA18-55, DA50-200 are definitely not full frame lenses
12-13-2008, 01:42 AM   #169
Veteran Member
KungPOW's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,702
QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
Hopefully you are right about these. Above all I'm waiting for the version with built-in GPS but a I'd also get a full frame LXD / medium format 645D after waiting for prices to drop a little.

Reply to your hockey sidenote: the Canucks are actually doing quite well even without Luongo. I believe your Finnish D Sami Salo is also injured. I love the guy, he's got a great slapshot but unfortunately he's got a groin made of glass as well.

Regards,
Boucicaut

Thanks for suporting my dream.

Salo is a great player. And he is missed while injured. He has really not used his "one timer" as much this year. It is too bad, as his slap shot is one of the hardest in the NHL. I have to wonder if he is woried about hurting his teammates that are pressing the crease.

Are you looking forward to Olympic hockey in 2010? I am. It is such a great event to see so many countries all fired up about the sport. Fins, Swedes, Rusians, Canucks, Swiss... All the great players. I love it.

Anyhow.

The LXD to be released at PMA 2009.

That is my hope right now. That and to see some daylight tomorrow. I expect you understand, as your days are shorter then mine. Winter can be dark.

Eric.

12-13-2008, 05:29 AM   #170
Veteran Member
pcarfan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,958
If they can make an APS-C sensor with a wider DR, and better iso performance (shadow detail), then who needs FF ???, So, I am hoping Pentax/Samsung will make a technology leap in terms of iso and DR (highly unlikely).

My first requirment is a much improved AF-tracking and AF speed, infact if this doesn't happen, IMO Pentax is over...so I think we will see this. I am hoping for iso improvements as well, then I'd be content...till the next model, that is
12-13-2008, 11:35 AM   #171
RaduA
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'm going to go with the oposite tack.

I like new technology. And I like cameras. New technology and cameras get me drooling.

Then you choose the right forum, I bet most of us feel the same way (I for sure do)!

So I was really down (not the good "down") about the Pentax showing at Photokina. Pentax just did not have enough "tech" presence.

My disappointment was first and foremost about the lack of new lenses in roadmap but I liked the K-m and I was aware that they couldn't change the other 2 cameras 6 months after launch. I am against FF at this point because I feel (with plenty of objective reasons I believe) that in this moment will be a poor bet for Pentax.

But I am getting over my disapointment, and with PMA 80 some odd days away, I'm starting to feel the hype again!

Again, you're not alone by any means !

So, Pentax plans to release 3 DSLR bodies, that would mean no change to the K-m, the K200D becomes a K200D super, the K20D becomes the K20D super.....

Yes, no, no! K-m of course is still to come in volume on most markets so there is no point in thinking about change. But for Pentax to simply upgrade to "Super" levels the other 2 cameras won't do. The main reason for that is the fact that our system is for the first time in the digital age a 3 cameras one (3 quite different not variants of the same base camera). So the space between them needs IMO to be maintained the same as before (K200D vs K20D) and that implies both mid and top end cameras to grow enough in features (and in price) to justify their spot. ATM we have the K-m @ 420 Euro-kit, the K200D about the same and the K20D @ 700 Euro kit. There is not enough spread and the prices of last 2 models are too low for mid and enthusiast levels. No amount of "super" upgrades will justify a 200 some Euro increase for the K200D succesor and 300-400 Euro for the K20D'. So what Hoya needs to do is exactly what they wrote in that report: to scrap and rebuild the range and the first step was the K-m which will progresively drop in price in 2009.
They will most likely scrap the older technologies such as the SAFOX VIII module that at least at marketing levels is too poor to be included in any new camera of 2009 above entry level. This will resolve one mantra of the anti-Pentax people who often recomand against Pentax buying based on that and of course make life easier for all of us who'll upgrade (because let's be honnest this will be a BIG upgrade in some circumstances - low light, tracking, etc). The second on the list is the Prime2 which will provide better colors (and 14bit performance for the high end model), noise treamtment, faster fps and better energy efficiency compared to the 2006 original Prime proc. They could also upgrade the exposure system to better and more consistent performance (for example put some lens driven behaviour for lenses that are known underexposers like DA* 16-50). Not last by any means Pentax will need to improve big time on buffer capacity expecially for the K300D from the abysmal 4/4 frames of today's K200D. Also I see the K300D adopting the LiIon battery of the K20.


And that leaves an open spot at the top for the LXD! (or the K3D, or K1D, or...)

No, it doesn't simply because this would mean a 4 cameras system (with little space between them if they are just slightly updating K200D and K20D!) which ATM I feel this is impossible to maintain for Pentax for financial and technological reasons.

So I'm going to start believing that Pentax is on the verge of releasing their 135 format camera. I am going to believe that it was marketing genius that held Pentax back from releaseing their FF uber shooter at Photokina. They let Canikonony fight for the spot light, and Pentax held back, letting the other three fight it out for media love. This I believe.

It's your right to believe whatever you like but I'm affraid this won't happen any time soon and 99.99% not in 09. The 3 cameras (DSLRs) that Pentax will put on the market in 09 will most likely be:
- K20D + GPS - the minor improvement;
- K200D' succesor - maybe they shed the numbers and call it K-d(addy)
- K20D' succesor - K -B(ig) D(addy)


I'm going to start hoping for the ultimate Pentax LXD camera to be released for PMA 2009. No let me rephraise...I KNOW they are going to release the FF uber Pentax at PMA 2009.

I know for sure that something big is in works for PMA but I hope it will mean more than one or two new cameras. Like Neo said in "the lobby scene" from Matrix: "we need lenses, lots of lenses".
Regards,
Radu
12-13-2008, 12:59 PM   #172
Veteran Member
KungPOW's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,702
Radu,

I won't let your impecable logic reduce my enthusiasm for the soon to be released LXD!



But we are not really that far apart in our predictions.

Your's:
- K20D + GPS - the minor improvement;
- K200D' succesor - maybe they shed the numbers and call it K-d(addy)
- K20D' succesor - K -B(ig) D(addy)

Mine:
K20D super ( the GPS is what makes it super)
K200D super (maybe it gets GPS also?)
LXD - I expect I am over dreaming here. Better chance this will be a K30D, APS-C, but with the updated internals as you say.

But in a way, this prediction of Pentax's future is a sport. And I'm going to pick my team early this season. I'm sticking with "Team LXD"

At anyrate, I am looking fwd to see what unfolds this season approaching PMA 2009.

I'll save you a seat in the stands, and buy you a beer!

Eric.
12-13-2008, 04:43 PM   #173
RaduA
Guest




Eric,

First of all thanks a lot for the seat and the beer (on that I think I'll pass since we have very good wine here and I am used to drink that more than beer ). Anyway I also believe that K20D's successor will be above APS-C but not quite FF and there is a sound reasoning behind this:

1) Hoya said they want to create: "unique cameras of a new and different field" and that will apply for sure at the top end more than the other cameras in the range;
2) If they just improve on the sensors (hence the "Super" variant for k200D) that will mean the same CCD without LV and with a 10Mp hardly any hot seller for the 2009-2010 I think;
3) I hope that they'll make sort of a "K20D Super" but as the K200D's successor. If they'll do that I think it may end up as the most successful Pentax camera in digital history. What will it have inside? I guess:

- 14,6 Mp sensor in today's iteration or with mild improvements;
- New Prime 2 image processor;
- New AF system;
- Maybe improved exposure system;
- Reduced mainboard compared to K20D;
- Same LiIOn battery;
- 3" LCD on the back;
- It may miss the top LCD for both cost and target customer based reasons;
- New smaller body, more rounded;
- Movie mode, maybe a crude implementation like the D90 but there for marketing reasons;
- Improved LV;
- At least 3.5 fps, maybe more, similar or larger than K20 buffer for RAW, limitless buffer for jpegs like most modern cameras;
- The dual wheel controls;
- Sealed, SDM kit lenses, preferably more than one (hopefully both zooms and a more versatile longer zoom) AT LAUNCH PLEASE!
- About 1000 pics with one charge (without flash);
- The same penta-prism as K20D;
- 1/2-1 stop better SR mechanism maybe with panning;
- 1/2 stop more in noise improvements and in DR compared to K20D will make it like +1 - 1,5 more compared to K200D;
- Mid price between 450D/50D and D60/D90 if possible to attract from potentially both segments and this seems quite doable with the current prices of K20D. Now for a more mass market produced camera the prices could fall per unit.

This could be a killer camera in no way inferior to any mid-range from other manufacturers + the classical Pentax advantages (ws + in body SR). And remember that those other won't add some features maybe never in their mid-range to protect their high end models and or marketing reasons (in lens IS).

4) For the "LXD" I see a new sensor with:

- Larger than APS-C format but doable in one pass opposed to the 2 pass of FF sensors thus reducing big time the costs;
- Larger than 20Mp with an APS-C crop of about the same as K20D (13-15MP);
- Independent and multiple crop factors on DA lenses based on their individual characteristics. Maybe some will be 1.5 crop only, others could go lower (1,4 for example) and some all the way down;
- Fall of (vignette) correction on lens ID basis;
- Possibly another aspect ratio because:
*Samsung must chose the best yield in numbers for their 300mm wafers (the APS-C was done when 200mm wafers were state of the art and probably 150mm the norm). Both APS-C and APS-H are artificial standards based on the economics of those years manufacturing capabilities if one starts fresh with 2009 technology the result could be different. Also Pentax has influence with Samsung and had little/none with Sony regarding new products;
* The target customer for this kind of cameras do lots of prints (fine arts and magazines) and more of a 1.35-1.4 ratio is ideal for that. This could appeal a lot for those who plan to switch to FF but are forced to crop a lot for prints and give them a more natural format;
- larger than APS-C but way less expensive than FF could mean a camera closer in price to the APS-C but with obvious advantages in quality (IQ and OVF) and also smaller/lighter/cheaper than FF;
- Pentax could make only 2 lens types (just like others): APS-C and FF still the latter will still have some advantages of corner quality and vignette (falloff) on a smaller than FF sensor;
- Pentax will increase the higher end lens sales both for the new cameras and the current APS-C users that may want quality/future proof/different angles. Typical example: a 24mm lens will become close to 35mm on APS-C, a 85mm close to 130mm and so on;
- It will be easier to attract new users with a cheaper than FF camera combined with new lenses of Ltd and * quality, a setup of body + some lenses will cost maybe as little as the body only for the cheapest new FF camera of competition. I won't say it will be exactly the same as very clear it can't be at least in terms of FOV and DOF but it could be good enough for some to jump ship;
- I won't speculate about other camera specs as it is futile ATM.

Regards, friend!
Radu

12-13-2008, 06:27 PM   #174
Veteran Member
kristoffon's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 532
GPS in a camera is the most useless thing ever. As a gimmick in an entry level camera to woo less knowledgeable customers in the store it might work. In a top-of-the-line camera it's a joke.
12-13-2008, 09:48 PM   #175
Veteran Member
KungPOW's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,702
I don't understand why they don't just sell a GPS grip for those that need the feature.

If they were thinking ahead with the K10/K20D line they could have added a data chanel from the hand grip to the body that could be used for a variety of future addidtions.

GPS
Blue tooth to your laptop
Wireless flash trigger
microphone and voice recorder
Compact flash slot, or double SD slots
MASSIVE battery pack
cold weather battery system
Advanced Movie & Film maker tools

I know that manufactures today want us to replace our gear as soon as we bought it, so adding additional functions to the camera through upgrades to the gip is not going to be very high on their to do list.

But I look at it this way:

The SLR is a successful camera type because of the variety of lenses that can be used with the camera.

Why not take this concept of image gathering configurations to the image processing side? Why not add features to the camera system through the grip, just like interchangeable lenses?
12-14-2008, 01:07 AM   #176
Site Supporter
Rorschach's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kuusamo, Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 598
QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Thanks for suporting my dream.

Salo is a great player. And he is missed while injured. He has really not used his "one timer" as much this year. It is too bad, as his slap shot is one of the hardest in the NHL. I have to wonder if he is woried about hurting his teammates that are pressing the crease.

Are you looking forward to Olympic hockey in 2010? I am. It is such a great event to see so many countries all fired up about the sport. Fins, Swedes, Rusians, Canucks, Swiss... All the great players. I love it.

Anyhow.

The LXD to be released at PMA 2009.

That is my hope right now. That and to see some daylight tomorrow. I expect you understand, as your days are shorter then mine. Winter can be dark.

Eric.
You bet, I'm really into top-level international hockey! Have always been, even before the recent successes of our team. Finland is a hockey crazy country and in this respect second only to Canada I think. At one point I was seriously considering getting tickets for the olympic hockey but I've pretty much given up on that because the current economy and the mortgage of our newly bought house.

And yes, it's really dark here at this time of the year as the Arctic Circle is only 50 km's away.

/end offtopic

Here's hoping to the future LXD/645D!

Regards,
Riku
12-14-2008, 01:12 AM   #177
Site Supporter
Rorschach's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kuusamo, Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 598
QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
GPS in a camera is the most useless thing ever. As a gimmick in an entry level camera to woo less knowledgeable customers in the store it might work. In a top-of-the-line camera it's a joke.
You, dear Sir, are dead wrong. There are people out there who really need the GPS feature but don't want to carry a separate unit. You know, not everybody shoots at shopping malls and back gardens without much to carry. When you're already hauling electrofishing gear, an YSI field multimeter, water velocity meter, nets and other sampling gear. you REALLY, REALLY appreciate not to have to carry one more extra gadget.
12-14-2008, 04:40 AM   #178
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,245
I agree entirely although, it would perfectly OK to me if it was present in a grip, as long as you don't need a gadget, indeed.
12-14-2008, 06:30 AM   #179
Veteran Member
soccerjoe5's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philippines
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,354
QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
You, dear Sir, are dead wrong. There are people out there who really need the GPS feature but don't want to carry a separate unit. You know, not everybody shoots at shopping malls and back gardens without much to carry. When you're already hauling electrofishing gear, an YSI field multimeter, water velocity meter, nets and other sampling gear. you REALLY, REALLY appreciate not to have to carry one more extra gadget.
Not only for having one less extra gadget, but if it's fully integrated it can tag the photos already etc instead of having to run it via software etc.
12-14-2008, 09:41 AM   #180
Veteran Member
*isteve's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,187
QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'm going to go with the oposite tack.

I like new technology. And I like cameras. New technology and cameras get me drooling.

So I was really down (not the good "down") about the Pentax showing at Photokina. Pentax just did not have enough "tech" presence.

But I am getting over my disapointment, and with PMA 80 some odd days away, I'm starting to feel the hype again!

So, Pentax plans to release 3 DSLR bodies, that would mean no change to the K-m, the K200D becomes a K200D super, the K20D becomes the K20D super.....

And that leaves an open spot at the top for the LXD! (or the K3D, or K1D, or...)

So I'm going to start believing that Pentax is on the verge of releasing their 135 format camera. I am going to believe that it was marketing genius that held Pentax back from releaseing their FF uber shooter at Photokina. They let Canikonony fight for the spot light, and Pentax held back, letting the other three fight it out for media love. This I believe.

I'm going to start hoping for the ultimate Pentax LXD camera to be released for PMA 2009. No let me rephraise...I KNOW they are going to release the FF uber Pentax at PMA 2009.

-------------------

Just as a side note, I need something to get excited about.
Work is stressful.
My investments have tanked.
The golie for my hockey team is injured.
My favorite football player has been released and has re-signed with another team , in the same division.


I'm not looking for anything logical here. Just something to get jazzed about. pentax, please don't make me live my techno-camera-fetish fantasy through Canikon.
I think you should try therapy.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, aps-c, cmos, fa, ii, mp, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, sdm, sensor
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-7 Speculations (moved over from review section) sctybear Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 05-07-2010 05:48 PM
Thoughts: K30D, APS-H, Ultrawide lenses jfsavage Pentax News and Rumors 59 02-16-2009 10:51 AM
K300D and K30D soon? flyer Pentax News and Rumors 102 02-08-2009 07:19 PM
put your money where your mouth is! K30D/K300D bet pool! Gooshin Pentax News and Rumors 22 11-10-2008 09:27 AM
Your Speculations? (on the Hoya-Pentax Issue) RiceHigh Pentax News and Rumors 37 06-16-2007 03:08 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:13 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top