[Fototim]

"and this without needing the "Minolta" Logo"

Perhaps that's exactly the reason why Sony has done so well.

They have had the advantage of having a recognized generic electronic brand and being the new hid in town at the same time. IMO thats a very desirable position.
Being the new kid in town generates attention and makes press and end users curious about their products. I think they have got a lot of attention out of this, without having to fight much for it.

But this will not last for ever. They can't be new comers forever you know.

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Last edited by Fototim; 01-11-2009 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Because I felt like editing :)

[Samsungian]

Sony and their dslr sensor manufacturing makes them unique. Canon makes their own sensors but they don't sell them to the competetion. Sony making sensors for both Pentax and Nikon puts an intersting spin on the unit totals competetion. If one were to look at sensors installed in dslrs then Sony was #1 in 2006.

"and this without needing the "Minolta" Logo"

Perhaps that's exactly the reason why Sony has done so well.

They have had the advantage of having a recognized generic electronic brand and being the new hid in town at the same time. IMO thats a very desirable position.
Being the new kid in town generates attention and makes press and end users curious about their products. I think they have got a lot of attention out of this, without having to fight much for it.

But this will not last for ever. They can't be new comers forever you know.

[séamuis]

Sony and their dslr sensor manufacturing makes them unique. Canon makes their own sensors but they don't sell them to the competetion. Sony making sensors for both Pentax and Nikon puts an intersting spin on the unit totals competetion. If one were to look at sensors installed in dslrs then Sony was #1 in 2006.

true. except we don't look at sensors, so...

[Photomy]

their test of K20 shows that K20D is one stop better than A900... but A900 is the first incarnation of FF in body stabilization... while K20D is not the first for APS-C... still certainly it is much more difficult to stabilize bigger sensor in body.

I am sure Canon and Nikon have explored in body stabilization, but were also concerned at the quality it brings for FF relative to lens stabization. I am sure that lens stabilization is better for FF even though it is harder to do and so more expensive for each lens. And of course they were already invested in the technology as well. For APS-C, Canon and Nikon would benefit in the market by adding in-body stabilization IMHO. Hopefully they do not because it might put Pentax out of business.

[séamuis]

Hopefully they do not because it might put Pentax out of business.

not likely.

[Fototim]

I am sure that lens stabilization is better for FF ...

Why?

To answer myself: The image circle of the K-mount represents a problem. It will probably produce vignetting. But besides this I can't see any reason why body based SR should be inferior. And the solution of that problem is simple. Making the pictures slightly smaller than FF when using SR. Ok. That's not real FF but who cares? I sure don't. 24x36 is just numbers. Numbers don't make pictures.

[Fototim]

Sony and their dslr sensor manufacturing makes them unique.

Until K20D Pentax has been using the same sensors. I can't see how that makes the Sony products unique.

[ftpaddict]

I am sure that lens stabilization is better for FF

And you base your certainties on what explanation?

[Samsungian]

You realize pentax has relied on Sony for every sensor in all pentax dslrs made until K20D. K20D uses Samsung sensor instead. Heck, even samsung used Sony sensors until they made their own for GX20 clone. Nikon uses their own sensors in D3 and D700 and outsourced some others over the years to another company, I don't recall the exact name. Sony fabs the D3x sensor to Nikon specs but the basic specs are identical to Sony full frame A900. D3x is $8,000 and Sony A900 is $3,000 and offers Sure Shot shake reduction TOO. If there was ever an credible argument for a full frame dslr maker selling cameras for less than cost its Sony A900.

So full frame and inbody stabilzed already exists even though I read on this forum from time to time people wondering if it will ever happen???

For fun, One might price old autofocus minolta pro glass like 300mm 2.8:

typically $2,000 complete in trunk,

which is alot less than pentax old FA 300mm 2.8 proglass and minolta can be used on full frame AND image stabilized body.

This alone makes Sony Unique. they offer Full Frame & Image Stabilized body DSLR

Nikon did not sell their D3/D700sensors to anyone. Canon does not sell their sensors to anyone. K Mount dslrs exist because companys like Sony and now Samsung make sensors for them and then sell these sensors to Pentax and now Hoya Corpaoration for Pentax.

Until K20D Pentax has been using the same sensors. I can't see how that makes the Sony products unique.

[séamuis]

Nikon did not sell their D3/D700sensors to anyone. Canon does not sell their sensors to anyone. K Mount dslrs exist because companys like Sony and now Samsung make sensors for them and then sell these sensors to Pentax and now Hoya Corpaoration for Pentax.

that's going on the assumption that Pentax could not develop their own sensor. I think that is a foolish assumption, but either way its still an assumption. and since you cant possibly say one way or the other, your statement as worded is false.

[Samsungian]

Pentax is said to be reducing their ambitious 3 lens launches and 60-250mm SDM was announced Sept 21 2006 and who here has bought one & RECEIVED IT?

I'm guessing Pentax has enough to keep them busy:

Oh add full frame to

Sensor manufacturing to

645D thats for sale and a 645D lenslineup thats for sale to

A simple 1.4x teleconverter to the to do build list...

Tamron made 1.4x TC years ago: MC4. Why is it so hard for pentax to do it too?

OK you win, Pentax can build their own sensors... This year? Next year? Next Decade? Yes at somepoint in the future Pentax can do anything.

PMA is March 3rd 2009 so we'll see what happens then with the Pentax Sensor Fabrication Plant idea.

that's going on the assumption that Pentax could not develop their own sensor. I think that is a foolish assumption, but either way its still an assumption. and since you cant possibly say one way or the other, your statement as worded is false.

[ftpaddict]

that's going on the assumption that Pentax could not develop their own sensor. I think that is a foolish assumption, but either way its still an assumption. and since you cant possibly say one way or the other, your statement as worded is false.

Since we're deep in the realm of speculation, I read somewhere that the K20D's sensor is designed (at least in part) by Pentax and made by Samsung.

Nikon's 12 MP FX sensor is a Nikon design and also manufactured by Sony.

Again, that's the word on the street.

[Graydon]

Why?

To answer myself: The image circle of the K-mount represents a problem. It will probably produce vignetting. But besides this I can't see any reason why body based SR should be inferior.

There are at least two other things to do; one is to fire the shutter when the sensor will be centered (you're not likely to notice a couple hundredths of a second either way when you push the button...) and second is to use an oversize sensor, and select the appropriate pixels from it. (Electronic lateral and vertical, but not depth, stabilization.)

I can't see why doing the first with K-mount would be any harder than doing it with any other mount. The second is probably better in some sense but prohibitively expensive.

My personal expectation is that the nice folks at Hoya start by saying "what price points can we sell into?" and then "what's the best camera we can profitably make for those price points?"; I very much doubt the answer for the first question permits of full frame anytime soon. I also don't think it matters.

[Blue]

"and this without needing the "Minolta" Logo"

Perhaps that's exactly the reason why Sony has done so well.

They have had the advantage of having a recognized generic electronic brand and being the new hid in town at the same time. IMO thats a very desirable position.
Being the new kid in town generates attention and makes press and end users curious about their products. I think they have got a lot of attention out of this, without having to fight much for it.

But this will not last for ever. They can't be new comers forever you know.

I don't think most people would consider Sony as the "new kid" just because the broke into dSLR. Many people buying a Sony dSLR may have been buying their first digital SlR or first SLR ever. A large number of them were likely Konica Minolta enthusiasts.

[Blue]

As far as who builds what. It has been common place for companies to subcontract the actual manufacturing of electronic components and circuity boards out to companies that don nothing but build things. Take a look at a circuit board sometimes and look where the various chips were made. Take a look at the board itself. There are companies that specialize in blank boards as well. Trying to figure out who actually made what can get complicated.