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06-29-2020, 01:53 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The solenoid story is far from water-tight (I will roast for saying that), though it is possible that it contributes to failure.* At the very least, it is important to note that the design has come down virtually unchanged from the first Super Program.** What has changed since then is the maximum frame rates, materials, and (possibly) choice of lubricants.

It helps to understand how the aperture control block works in context of mirror and shutter control. PM me and I will do my best to provide an explanation.



That is the strange part. Those cameras were generally sold with the 18-55 or as a two lens kit with 55-200 added at a price point under $650 total.*** The estimate of an additional $450 in the suite is a ploy to bring the total into range to certify the class action. I will go out on a limb and suggest that very few people who bought these cameras were heavily invested in lenses at or before the date of ABF.


Steve

* Sadly, accounts are filtering in of repair with replacement solenoids failing.
** My Super Program was made in 1983 and still works quite nicely.
*** My friend bought hers at Costco, Dec 2013, as a two lens WR kit with bag for $575 IIRC. Yes, they were at deep discount that soon after release and stayed there until model EOL.
Ah, by design I meant only the green solenoid (which I know was not designed by Pentax, but they still sourced an improperly designed/manufactured piece). Sorry for not being clearer

06-29-2020, 02:30 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The period of time was only three years from the launch of the K-30 until the launch of the K-S2. I would not include the K-S1 or K-S2 in the list, mostly because of low sales on those models and a paucity of ABF reports. There are two threads on this site for the K-S1/K-S2, but with relatively few reports per thread.


Steve
Right, as far as I have understood the problem occurs preferred after a body has been sitting unused on the shelf for a certain time. IIRC all these cameras were already all on the market before some pattern might have been noticed.

Last edited by MMVIII; 06-30-2020 at 01:58 AM.
06-29-2020, 03:22 PM   #63
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I'd be very surprised if this suit has success. Firstly, there's the issue of who's being sued. Secondly, I think the manufacturer will likely be able to prove that most cameras function faultlessly, even with the green solenoid. And, the normal warrantee period likely catches many failures.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 06-29-2020 at 04:06 PM.
06-29-2020, 09:51 PM   #64
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I've owned both the K-r and the K-30 and had aperture replacements in both.

06-29-2020, 10:47 PM   #65
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I have that issue with my K-1 but it is the mirror who gets stuck.
I can fix it temporarily by switching to live view and the camera on and off.

The lubricant gets sticky over time and the camera seems to struggle to create enough force to move the mirror.
06-30-2020, 04:34 AM - 1 Like   #66
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I, for one, am looking forward to eventually receiving $6.25 for the effort I had to go through to fix my K-30's bad aperture for $200 and wait long enough that I felt compelled to replace it with a K-3ii for $800. A more... vindictive? smarter? person might have jumped ship to another manufacturer if their first real camera died after 7155 shutter actuations.
06-30-2020, 06:35 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Painter Quote
Who has time for an effort like this and to what end?
Another camera manufacturer, to an end I think you can guess.

Pentax's lawyers need to be on the lookout for this, IMHO. The article I saw on Facebook seemed to indicate that this is being handled by a firm which specializes in class actions. Did it go looking for a client, and at whose behest?

06-30-2020, 07:33 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I, for one, am looking forward to eventually receiving $6.25 for the effort I had to go through to fix my K-30's bad aperture for $200 and wait long enough that I felt compelled to replace it with a K-3ii for $800. A more... vindictive? smarter? person might have jumped ship to another manufacturer if their first real camera died after 7155 shutter actuations.
My full understanding, it just sucks.
And it should not devalue the anger nor excuse any manufacturer from anything. Just that the K-30/50 were entrance level models, which were sold for 500 money, sometimes in a kit... maybe that contributet to the handling of the situation.
Pentax has track record of doing proper recalls, stained sensors on K-5 got free exchange without questions. And it might have cost them a fortune, unfortunately, maybe making the model less profitable and maybe taking some momentum out of the development path of an excellent system in it's potential growing phase... who knows

Last edited by MMVIII; 06-30-2020 at 08:47 AM.
06-30-2020, 08:31 AM   #69
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Another thing I am not clear on.
They say 12000 sales at $450 for about $5,000,000. 12000x450=5,400,000

But surveys here say maybe 35% failure at $200 repair cost. 12000x0.35x200=$840,000.
Pentax Aperture Block Failure Survey Results - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

It is guessed that this is at the worst case senario. So what are they saying damages are and what worth?
06-30-2020, 09:09 AM   #70
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I have two K30, both are working fine (and abused beyond belief, including rain, falls, snow, sleet, humidity, dust and salt). what where they selling you state side?? see them on the back to the right.
200522_PTXOne_132418.jpg

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 07-05-2020 at 02:47 AM. Reason: Naughty word
06-30-2020, 09:46 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Pentax's lawyers need to be on the lookout for this, IMHO.
If they are served, they will have no choice.

OTOH, the entity named in the filing (Ricoh USA) does not make or distribute cameras, so I think Ricoh Imaging USA (Pentax) is pretty safe.


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06-30-2020, 10:24 AM   #72
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The real news here is that 12000 copies of K30/50/70 were sold in the US since 2014. So around 2000 per year. Everything else just pays lawyers salaries.

OK, this part is funny as well: “...aperture, the opening in a camera lens through which light passes to enter the camera.”
06-30-2020, 10:48 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Quote
Hi Steve, I do not think that sueing Ricoh USA is a problem. If you go to their website and choose under products for equipment you can select camera and yes, there are the Theta's and consumer camera's
They can try, I suppose. The Ricoh USA named in the complaint as being headquartered in Exton, Chester County, Pennsylvania offers an array of products and services, but no cameras.

Digital Business Services & Printing Solutions | Ricoh USA

Ricoh Imaging Americas (US and Canada distributors of Ricoh and Pentax cameras and accessories), OTOH, is headquartered in West Caldwell, New Jersey and has no direct relationship to Ricoh USA.

If the suit goes forward, it will be the Pennsylvania entity that will be served and they will likely respond with a letter to the court suggesting that they have no record of selling Pentax products to the plaintiffs or anyone else. There is always the chance that the lawyers filing the complaint will come across this thread, realize their error, and file a revised version; but I suspect that they are not the diligent type.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-30-2020 at 10:53 AM.
06-30-2020, 11:24 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Ah, by design I meant only the green solenoid (which I know was not designed by Pentax, but they still sourced an improperly designed/manufactured piece). Sorry for not being clearer
As stated, this is also incorrect. I own a "Super Program" {left end of Signature photo} which I purchased in 1983 just after the KA-mount was developed. As I understand it, this camera also has a solenoid controlling the aperture, and last year {the last time I used it} the aperture control still worked correctly. There is nothing wrong with the design or the original choice of parts; the problems apparently arose when the supplier moved production to China and changed materials used. The new design still passed Pentax Japan's acceptance testing - but aged differently from the original part. The difference in aging over time is the essential difference, and very possibly cannot be simulated. Very likely neither Pentax Japan nor the sub-supplier recognized the issue, since neither changed the part number of the item in question. My K-30 worked correctly for over two years - I can see a court's saying that you cannot expect more life from a bottom-rung consumer-level product these days .... even tho0ugh I would prefer that they move away from this design now that its short-comings are clear.
06-30-2020, 11:48 AM - 1 Like   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
As stated, this is also incorrect. I own a "Super Program" {left end of Signature photo} which I purchased in 1983 just after the KA-mount was developed. As I understand it, this camera also has a solenoid controlling the aperture, and last year {the last time I used it} the aperture control still worked correctly. There is nothing wrong with the design or the original choice of parts; the problems apparently arose when the supplier moved production to China and changed materials used. The new design still passed Pentax Japan's acceptance testing - but aged differently from the original part. The difference in aging over time is the essential difference, and very possibly cannot be simulated. Very likely neither Pentax Japan nor the sub-supplier recognized the issue, since neither changed the part number of the item in question. My K-30 worked correctly for over two years - I can see a court's saying that you cannot expect more life from a bottom-rung consumer-level product these days .... even tho0ugh I would prefer that they move away from this design now that its short-comings are clear.
Coming from process engineering, a change of materials is changing the design, as designs necessarily include the material selection (and they also reduced the quality of the workmanship from what I've seen). I see how that would be a point of confusion
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