[Rondec]

The times I've gotten anything from class action suits have been a joke. One was from a health insurance company that was ripping people off for thousands of dollars for basically useless coverage. The award? Some crummy discount vouchers for health care products or a gym/spa.

The other was from Verizon or Frontier overcharging late or other service fees. The award was under $30 and much less than what I was charged for in the time period covered by the suit. The "award" was applied to one of my monthly bills and didn't even cover the bill.

There was another one that I don't even remember what was for. The "award" amount to less than $3 dollars and the steps to go through to collect it wasn't worth it.

Good luck.

I wonder if the lawyers got paid in vouchers?

[Kunzite]

Can I just do a diversion to applaud how everyone here has handled what is a controversial discussion of our beloved brand?

I posted where the moderators are pleading for civility:

"In one thread I've admitted I've supported the lawsuit initiated against Ricoh over the aperture block issue, even supplying the lawyers with advice. No shortage of the people I like have then disagreed with me, but all factual, all respectful so far, because there's no doubt I'm one of their brothers."

This deserves a musical dedication:

You Tube

You Tube

(apologies for the off-topic... but it's Iron Maiden so it should be easily forgiven )

[Serkevan]

This deserves a musical dedication:
YouTube

(apologies for the off-topic... but it's Iron Maiden so it should be easily forgiven )

I saw the Brave New World cover before seeing the track's title, wasn't disappointed
For what it's worth, I would like restitution to those users who had legitimate problems with their aperture control and SDM motors, because that's what's just and fair. That doesn't mean that I hate Ricoh Imaging and want to see them fail, but to me it rings wrong to have no clear "hey, don't do that" consequence. Honestly I think that the best option would have been for Ricoh to give a ~5 year warranty on those known issues, or offer a nice trade-in bonus for a KP (or K-70 if they are basically problem-free)...

If this thread has taught me anything is that we all agree that the lawyers are the only serious winners.

[clackers]

(apologies for the off-topic... but it's Iron Maiden so it should be easily forgiven )

Absolutely, it's all about the comradeship … it was Bruce Dickinson coming back to the band for that one. Probably flying his own Learjet.

[Kunzite]

I saw the Brave New World cover before seeing the track's title, wasn't disappointed
For what it's worth, I would like restitution to those users who had legitimate problems with their aperture control and SDM motors, because that's what's just and fair. That doesn't mean that I hate Ricoh Imaging and want to see them fail, but to me it rings wrong to have no clear "hey, don't do that" consequence. Honestly I think that the best option would have been for Ricoh to give a ~5 year warranty on those known issues, or offer a nice trade-in bonus for a KP (or K-70 if they are basically problem-free)...

If this thread has taught me anything is that we all agree that the lawyers are the only serious winners.

I would like that as well - not restitution but convenient repairs - for the aperture issue. The repair costs should be enough to make Ricoh Imaging more careful. From what I understand a properly repaired camera should be fine.
For SDM it's too late, a decade passed since the problematic series; and it should've been handled by Hoya. I don't think diverting funds from R&D to pay for Hoya's mishandling of the situation would do any good.
And I have friends affected by the SDM issue.

[Serkevan]

I would like that as well - not restitution but convenient repairs - for the aperture issue. The repair costs should be enough to make Ricoh Imaging more careful. From what I understand a properly repaired camera should be fine.
For SDM it's too late, a decade passed since the problematic series; and it should've been handled by Hoya. I don't think diverting funds from R&D to pay for Hoya's mishandling of the situation would do any good.
And I have friends affected by the SDM issue.

Yes, I'd still be a bit iffy with recommending the K-70 (if only because the KP isn't -now, after significant price drops- that much of an extra expense for a lot more camera), but in general I suppose that a "not happening again" coupled with extended warranty repairs would be a good enough gesture.

For the SDM the "proper" fix would have been, IMO, to issue a formal statement saying that they would honor repairs until X years after purchase and that they had worked to minimize the issue on later batches. But obviously hindsight is 20/20 and the PR damage is done. At least the screwdrive conversion works on the most problematic lenses, which is more than Nikon can say with their wave motor...

I personally think the SDM issue stings more because it was on expensive, premium lenses that were supposed to be built like tanks. The problem is they were built exactly like tanks, including the transmission breakdowns

If they follow the 16-50/2.8 PLM with a similar 50-135 the issue will be more or less behind them, I hope.

[normhead]

Yes, I'd still be a bit iffy with recommending the K-70 (if only because the KP isn't -now, after significant price drops- that much of an extra expense for a lot more camera), but in general I suppose that a "not happening again" coupled with extended warranty repairs would be a good enough gesture.

For the SDM the "proper" fix would have been, IMO, to issue a formal statement saying that they would honor repairs until X years after purchase and that they had worked to minimize the issue on later batches. But obviously hindsight is 20/20 and the PR damage is done. At least the screwdrive conversion works on the most problematic lenses, which is more than Nikon can say with their wave motor...

I personally think the SDM issue stings more because it was on expensive, premium lenses that were supposed to be built like tanks. The problem is they were built exactly like tanks, including the transmission breakdowns

If they follow the 16-50/2.8 PLM with a similar 50-135 the issue will be more or less behind them, I hope.

My advice has always been, "If you can't afford to replace it insure it." My *ist D cost me $2200, which I knew was more than I could just cover on a whim. I paid $200 for insurance to extend to 4 years, and it saved me a $750 repair bill when the main circuit board died. With cameras, a drop can break them at any time. My argument would be that you need a plan to deal with loss. Hence, I always have three DSLRs and a couple bridge and point and shoots in the house. If you own just one camera, sooner or later you're going to have no camera. Best to have a plan in advance.

It's unfortunate but those buying the least durable cameras in many cases are those with the least ability to replace or repair.

---

Last edited by normhead; 07-07-2020 at 07:03 AM.

[volley]

Yes, that was about components chosen by Pentax Corporation, with Hoya Corporation not properly acting on fixing the customers' lenses.
Ricoh Imaging is precisely the one to take the blame, and now is the exact moment to do it, for maximum effect
The lawyers would make more money, but we'd all lose.

I think when Ricoh took over questions about reliability issues with SDM lenses were discussed already for some time. So a proper due diligence should have made them aware and I would not be surprised if the purchase agreement contains special warranties leaving the liability for specific existing designs with the seller. That's not uncommon in M&A negotiations.

[lsimpkins]

For example, if the camera has a better than average life expectancy than other cameras of it's price, Pentax cold argue that even though this one problem was a thing, it was still better than what the industry standard was and that purchasers of other systems weren't getting anything better.

If, as noted, Ricoh has trouble establishing their own true failure rates, just think how difficult it will be to establish what the industry "standard" reliability is without access to internal data from other manufacturers.

[normhead]

If, as noted, Ricoh has trouble establishing their own true failure rates, just think how difficult it will be to establish what the industry "standard" reliability is without access to internal data from other manufacturers.

The issues facing the instigators of this suit are IMHO insurmountable. I suspect if they do go forward, they'll be praying for a sympathetic judge.

[stevebrot]

If, as noted, Ricoh has trouble establishing their own true failure rates, just think how difficult it will be to establish what the industry "standard" reliability is without access to internal data from other manufacturers.

Consumer Reports used to publish per-brand failure/major repair rates at three years for the different classes of digital cameras. Going by memory, the percentages were about 5-8% in and around 2014. One-in-twenty failing is a pretty bad and one-in-thirteen, even worse. FWIW, the failure rates for laptop computers at the time made cameras look rock-solid.


Steve

[normhead]

Consumer Reports used to publish per-brand failure/major repair rates at three years for the different classes of digital cameras. Going by memory, the percentages were about 5-8% in and around 2014. One-in-twenty failing is a pretty bad and one-in-thirteen, even worse. FWIW, the failure rates for laptop computers at the time made cameras look rock-solid.


Steve

I've seen huge piles of returned computers in a vendors warehouses. Early on testing computers to make sure they worked properly was huge concern. They couldn't. The Apple thing used to be "if it works for 6 months it will work for 10 years." However, my cameras get handled much more roughly than my computers, which makes their longevity even more surprising. Certainly one of the things lending credence to the "Pentax should have done more" crowd, is the failure rate after 6 months. It was an atypical electronics problem.

[Kevwaly]

This is good but probably too little too late. I bought three K50s for a school photography class. ALL THREE were toast within the first semester. I’m sure Ricoh knew there were big probs with that line of cameras.

[clackers]

If, as noted, Ricoh has trouble establishing their own true failure rates, just think how difficult it will be to establish what the industry "standard" reliability is without access to internal data from other manufacturers.

I think the plaintiff really doesn't have any data. The filing genuinely asks the judge, "There's a problem, just do a Google search".

It might take a Hoya/Ricoh whistleblower with a smoking gun document to come forward, because for some of the accusations, you have to prove the company knew of a widespread problem and after that date did nothing - an email, minutes of a meeting, or a memo.

[Not a Number]

Here's a link to the current catalog sheet on the suspect solenoid used in the K-30 onwards* Note the operating life is listed as 20,000 cycles.
http://www.shinmei-e.co.jp/e/product/pdf/E_DL09.pdf

I tried combing through the Internet Archive of the manufacturer's website for older datasheets but oddly the period from around the introduction of the *istD which used the white solenoid with roughly the same specification to (as I recall) 2014 the website was using scripts (PHP or something similar) to generate download links. Thus I am unable to download the older spec sheets for that time period. I think I found the spec sheet for the solenoid used in the film cameras but it is not interchangeable with the DSLR version.

Note at the bottom of the catalog sheet reads:
" The appearance and specifications of the products may be modified without prior notice to improve its performance."
"This catalogue shows only outline specifications. When using the product, please obtain formal specifications."


(there are reports of the K-4 having green solenoids on both the flash popup and the aperture block as well as the black frame syndrome but these are rare)

*There have been reports of the K-r having two green solenoids (German Pentax forum) as well as reports of the Black Frame Syndrome with the K-r here on Pentax Forums. Since those cameras have not been examined it is unknown if they have green aperture solenoids or not.