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06-29-2020, 07:01 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
I can see merit in both sides of the debate, which, I suppose, is the reason the court ruling was that each party was partially responsible. That was a reasonable conclusion, I'd say.
Exactly - one instance of recklessness doesn't excuse the other.

06-29-2020, 08:42 AM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by thazooo Quote
If you ignore a problem long enough it will come back to Bite you. About time
Yep like it did Nikon for ignoring the D600 issues for so long. They eventually had to make good and were replacing D600 shutters (for YEARS) and, in some cases, swapping with new D610 bodies.

Surprised SDM failure didn't get a class action. If anything that one seems like it would be the more widespread issue.
06-29-2020, 09:14 AM - 5 Likes   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Someone with a modicum of common sense would not put a steaming cup of coffee between their legs and then try to remove the lid with one hand. Common sense would also dictate that you shouldn't drive and text either but I see people doing it all the time.......it seems that common sense is spread very thin these days.

As for the camera issue, I never read which camera she owned and when she bought it. If the camera was a K-30 or K-50 why did she wait so long to file the lawsuit?
The whole thing could have been avoided with warning signs in every McDonalds that state "For our convenience, the coffee is unbelievably hot and you should probably not buy it unless you want to drink it tomorrow when it has approached thermodynamic equilibrium with the environment."
06-29-2020, 10:33 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Surprised SDM failure didn't get a class action. If anything that one seems like it would be the more widespread issue.
It's not too late for a lawyer to try. Money to be made

06-29-2020, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
This article Calculating the Optimum Temperature for Serving Hot Beverages - PubMed shows that ideal serving temperature is 135 F - Slightly under 60 C, which is in line with what I would expect. My Nespresso Vertuo pours at ~65C and I need to wait for a fair bit.


If anyone served me coffee at more than 90 C I'd be fuming - anything over 70C gets drastically more dangerous and I doubt anyone would be able to actually drink the coffee served at that temperature. I have zero sympathy for McD.
I brew my coffee at about 180-190 F using pour-over or French press. Any hotter and I get a less smooth brew. That is too hot to drink without cooling a bit and one reason why I don't prewarm my stainless travel cup with tap water (130F) before doing pour-over directly into that cup; it takes forever to cool. FWIW, McDonalds still serves their coffee at a temperature that is too hot for me.


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06-29-2020, 11:24 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
This article [url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18226454/]


If anyone served me coffee at more than 90 C I'd be fuming - anything over 70C gets drastically more dangerous
There was a public service announcement on tv back in 2005.
I child hit by a car at 30mph has a 80% chance of survival, at 40mph an 80% chance to die. A pretty sharp statistical boundary.
06-29-2020, 11:34 AM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
There was a public service announcement on tv back in 2005.
I child hit by a car at 30mph has a 80% chance of survival, at 40mph an 80% chance to die. A pretty sharp statistical boundary.
Yep, that's why the speed limit in urban areas is typically 30 mph (so 50 km/h). In fact I know of several cities where they are dropping it down to 30 km/h* (~18 mph, but I guess they'd do 20 because it's a rounder number) just because the chance of death drops to almost zero: https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/relationship_between_speed_risk_fatal_injury_ped...s_richards.pdf


This graph shows basically the numbers you quoted (page 12 of the pdf file):


*In my particular hometown, they have steep speed bumps every 50-100 meters on many streets, and almost all zebra crossings are elevated. A bunch of people complained because they refuse to learn how to drive through them and they are mildly inconvenienced, but it's pedestrian paradise.

---------- Post added 06-29-20 at 11:38 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I brew my coffee at about 180-190 F using pour-over or French press. Any hotter and I get a less smooth brew. That is too hot to drink without cooling a bit and one reason why I don't prewarm my stainless travel cup with tap water (130F) before doing pour-over directly into that cup; it takes forever to cool. FWIW, McDonalds still serves their coffee at a temperature that is too hot for me.


Steve
For French press I also brew at a similar temperature or else I find the coffee too bitter, and then it's sitting in there for some minutes and once served I still wait for another twenty before being able to drink it (or I add cold milk) - If I use the press I normally pour it to the mug and leave it there while I prepare brunch, there's plenty of time to come back to it . I don't like neither lukewarm nor burning hot coffee*, so the temperature range is kinda limited.

I only use the French press during the weekends though, normally I throw the capsule in while making breakfast, foam the milk, put all of it together in the metal mug and sip it while walking to work.

*I, however, enjoy iced coffee immensely in summer. Although it has to be drunk quickly lest the ice melts and you end up with americano...

Last edited by Serkevan; 06-29-2020 at 11:41 AM.
06-29-2020, 12:00 PM - 5 Likes   #53
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Folks, the title of the thread is Pentax Aperture Black Picture Problem Class Action Lawsuit.
Relating other lawsuits is fine as it somewhat relevant, but speed limits, what water temp to brew coffee, what's the best apparatus for brewing, etc. is not relevant. Off topic posts from this point will be quietly deleted or, alternatively, this thread will go the way of the dodo as several others have recently.

06-29-2020, 12:16 PM - 1 Like   #54
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Many things about the way America operates perplex me this is another of them. Suing over a product years after its out of warranty? Dont you just punish a company by not buying their product in the future if your that unhappy? Along with a strongly worded tweet. Who has time for an effort like this and to what end?
06-29-2020, 12:34 PM - 2 Likes   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Painter Quote
Many things about the way America operates perplex me this is another of them. Suing over a product years after its out of warranty? Dont you just punish a company by not buying their product in the future if your that unhappy? Along with a strongly worded tweet. Who has time for an effort like this and to what end?
Well, to be fair having pieces that are prone to failure because of bad design (or, in the case of the green solenoids, because they carried on using stuff that was not up to spec) is walking very close to planned obsolescence, which means that the company is responsible for false advertising.

Never mind the fact that a camera body is not a self-contained purchase, there are lenses and accessories that are compatible with cameras from that very company, which means that it's absolutely unethical.
06-29-2020, 12:56 PM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
As for the camera issue, I never read which camera she owned and when she bought it. If the camera was a K-30 or K-50 why did she wait so long to file the lawsuit?
From the lawsuit, it is likely the camera was a K-50 purchased sometime in late 2014. Her taking so long does not surprise me. We still get inquiries regarding aperture block failures on K-50 cameras that had been put away within a few months of purchase and not used since.


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06-29-2020, 01:03 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Well, to be fair having pieces that are prone to failure because of bad design (or, in the case of the green solenoids, because they carried on using stuff that was not up to spec) is walking very close to planned obsolescence, which means that the company is responsible for false advertising.

Never mind the fact that a camera body is not a self-contained purchase, there are lenses and accessories that are compatible with cameras from that very company, which means that it's absolutely unethical.
You're basically saying this was intentional, which is absolute nonsense.
Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't want the additional cost with repairing the cameras under warranty, or the lost reputation associated with those defects.
06-29-2020, 01:21 PM - 2 Likes   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're basically saying this was intentional, which is absolute nonsense.
Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't want the additional cost with repairing the cameras under warranty, or the lost reputation associated with those defects.
No, I'm not saying it is intentional, I'm saying that the way that happened, for five camera models over a period of about 4 years (K-30, K-50, K-500, K-S1, K-S2. Not counting the K-70 because it apparently has a much lower rate of failure), with the lack of action and the stubbornness in refusing to admit their fault, is either gross incompetence or they just didn't care, and both of them are close enough in effect to it being intentional.
06-29-2020, 01:28 PM - 2 Likes   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Well, to be fair having pieces that are prone to failure because of bad design (or, in the case of the green solenoids, because they carried on using stuff that was not up to spec) is walking very close to planned obsolescence, which means that the company is responsible for false advertising.
The solenoid story is far from water-tight (I will roast for saying that), though it is possible that it contributes to failure.* At the very least, it is important to note that the design has come down virtually unchanged from the first Super Program.** What has changed since then is the maximum frame rates, materials, and (possibly) choice of lubricants.

It helps to understand how the aperture control block works in context of mirror and shutter control. PM me and I will do my best to provide an explanation.

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Never mind the fact that a camera body is not a self-contained purchase, there are lenses and accessories that are compatible with cameras from that very company, which means that it's absolutely unethical.
That is the strange part. Those cameras were generally sold with the 18-55 or as a two lens kit with 55-200 added at a price point under $650 total.*** The estimate of an additional $450 in the suite is a ploy to bring the total into range to certify the class action. I will go out on a limb and suggest that very few people who bought these cameras were heavily invested in lenses at or before the date of ABF.


Steve

* Sadly, accounts are filtering in of repair with replacement solenoids failing.
** My Super Program was made in 1983 and still works quite nicely.
*** My friend bought hers at Costco, Dec 2013, as a two lens WR kit with bag for $575 IIRC. Yes, they were at deep discount that soon after release and stayed there until model EOL.
06-29-2020, 01:41 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
for five camera models over a period of about 4 years (K-30, K-50, K-500, K-S1, K-S2.
The period of time was only three years from the launch of the K-30 until the launch of the K-S2. I would not include the K-S1 or K-S2 in the list, mostly because of low sales on those models and a paucity of ABF reports. There are two threads on this site for the K-S1/K-S2, but with relatively few reports per thread.


Steve
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