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07-19-2020, 03:51 AM - 1 Like   #241
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One problem is the members who must “win” each argument; I need to say my view and then leave the field to him. The result here is not going to determine the decisions that Pentax actually makes.

07-20-2020, 06:28 PM - 4 Likes   #242
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im still not in as much as i would like but i thank adam and others for all you do,
07-27-2020, 10:26 PM - 5 Likes   #243
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Full support to the moderators for keeping this forum polite and constructive. Thank you.
07-31-2020, 07:58 AM - 2 Likes   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Used in English, "with all due respect" is often used to preface a point that is in disagreement with the person you are talking to. It's kind of like "listen up, I don't agree with your point. Here's why." Or another interpretation could be " I understand your point but I don' think it's relevant to the conversation because of ........"
Ah... this could apply to me?

English is not my native language and I had again and again difficulties with what could be called "form".
My usual approach is "form follows function" but to others this can come over as inpolite.
I personal find stupidity and ignorance impolite. No, not just impolite but actually rude!

The difficulty is:

Anger is something everybody right away can point their finger at. It is easy to do so.

Anger belongs to what is called "negativity", or one could call it a "negative emotion". This means it is a reaction.

So one reacts to a negative emotion, everybody in his/her personal way, i.e. as one is "programmed"
One reacts "upset". But such a reaction then is nothing else than exactly this: A reaction!
It is not one yota better but stays exactly on the same level.

So we have what is called politness as a measure against reaction.

Fine, that is a rule and thus accepted.

But there are other negativities, other negative emotions!

One of them ... these days a huge huge problem: IGNORANCE

Ignorance is not that easely to be pointed at. An ignorant person behaves just dull, blockheaded, like concrete, won't move.

Since a few month we can observe for the first time since a long time that ignorance can actually be pointed at:
Thanks to corona/Covid19!
All the sudden ignorance is shown to us, confronts us (except the ignorant of course!)


There are other forms of negativity, and some well disguised.

One is called cleverness. Combined with ignorance a very nasty one.


So back to those words "with all due respect":

A highly regarded moderator here (whom I do highly respect!) recommended to me to use these words when I disagree with something and I know the person is wrong. So I did (with some inner resistance, which I shall explain later on)

But it seems now to me that to others it actually means the opposite.

But what about those who bend over with politeness, kissing the feet of those who agree with them? Is that respect?
My immedeate reaction is "this makes me sick". To me it is false. Kind of prostituting oneself.


I find there is a simple logic:

Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.
Because stupidity is usually the basis of ignorance.
With stupidity I don't mean a person who can't help it! Also not at all a simple person. Far off! Often high up in the mountains and met very simple people which I admired and had a high respect for.

No, with stupid I mean those who are stubborn goats, who block development, those who don't know at all but pretend to know.
So applying the words "with all due respect" I'd see as a game, a game I have to accept and respect, but inwardly, no, there is no respect.
I do not respect ignorance. As well disguised as it may be. I also do not respect overpolitness, its smells fishy, slimy... and sometimes it stinks.
So with stupid questions I mean those type of questions which either demand answers which with a little effort instead of laid back lazyness could quite easely be found out by oneself.
Questions posed by those "who expect roast pigeons flying into their wide open mouth."

And those who bring questions and members of our forum make an effort to answer but the TO does not move a yota to respond again, to either answer well though out questions to help or ... who don't feel there is any need to tell about the outcome. Lack of considering or just rude or lazy or a combination of all.


Not easy, all this.

So my personal aim is to respect the forum rules, but I don't respect nor inwardly accept those who act with ignorance, stubbornness, disguised rudeness and/or cleverness.

Anything personal could also be solved via p.m.


One suggestion against misuse in this forum:

Often when reading reviews either of lenses or cameras I find reviews by people where I guess they have this very lens and want to sell it.
So they write this rave review to maybe just point at it when selling their lens on ebay.


I think somebody being allowed to write a review should have participated at least 30 times in threads.

The opposite also has happened, somebody was just angry about a purchase and now writes a very bad review.

Difficult, but maybe worth considering?


After all:

My high respect to the moderators who do tremendous work!


Last edited by photogem; 08-17-2020 at 03:33 AM.
08-16-2020, 03:35 PM   #245
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I haven't been around here much lately, but I have seen this behavior in some other Pentax related forums, for instance in reddit and facebook. I'm glad the moderators here are on top of the issues. I also happen to use Olympus cameras, so I've noticed it twofold... that sale to Japan Industrial Partners appears to be potentially good, and they are going ahead with some new products for this year, but we'll see.

Keep up the good work!
08-18-2020, 11:47 AM - 2 Likes   #246
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I try not to enter the threads that bring useless controversies, that do not contribute anything and I appreciate the effort of the moderators, to keep the forum clean of negativity, as far as possible.
This is a site to share experiences about our photos and our pentax, and although debate and discrepancies should be normal, it must always be done with respect for other users, an elementary rule of coexistence.
Regards
08-19-2020, 01:14 PM - 3 Likes   #247
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Many thanks to you and the moderators for all your efforts.

08-25-2020, 02:01 AM - 1 Like   #248
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I haven't been in the discussion forums so I haven't seen what's described here, but a discussion should never ever lead to rudiness and calling each other names. You can agree to disagree and leave it at that, step away. Those who can't control their ego, don't show respect and/or start calling names should be banned for a (longer) period or forever if they repeatedly cross that line of being respectul and being polite.
To all the moderators: keep up the good work.
08-25-2020, 02:33 AM - 1 Like   #249
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Just nuke the news and rumors section and the forum quality goes up 100x.
08-25-2020, 06:22 AM - 1 Like   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Just nuke the news and rumors section and the forum quality goes up 100x.
But pageviews and post numbers would halve at the same time!

e: assuming, of course, the unrealistic scenario where the contents of this section wouldn't just be made in all the other parts of the forum instead
08-25-2020, 06:30 AM - 10 Likes   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
But pageviews and post numbers would halve at the same time!

e: assuming, of course, the unrealistic scenario where the contents of this section wouldn't just be made in all the other parts of the forum instead
I believe I've referred to that previously... if the News & Rumours section didn't exist, the same threads would simply end up in the other sections. Having News & Rumours at least keeps those discussions ring-fenced, to some extent...
08-25-2020, 07:03 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Just nuke the news and rumors section and the forum quality goes up 100x.
Good idea.......... then I might not comment there
08-25-2020, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #253
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C'mon guys, this section is the only one I have time to read.
The rest is way too time consuming (read: too smart).
08-27-2020, 06:02 AM - 4 Likes   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
To the PF community:

I hope everyone is doing well and staying healthy in these unprecedented times (please check out our statement on the coronavirus if you haven't already). Like many other businesses, the camera industry has also suffered in the past months (e.g., low camera sales figures and more recently, the sale of the Olympus camera division, etc.). Consequently, even though it would seem that Pentax is coping quite well in comparison, we've been observing a steady rise in negative sentiment toward the Pentax brand throughout the community, which in some cases has led to unpleasant confrontations in forum threads and difficult decisions by the moderators.

In line with my mission of Pentax Forums being a friendly and inclusive community for Pentax users, we are going to be taking a series of steps to help minimize these kinds of unpleasantries going forward.
  • We are seeking additional moderators across multiple time zones to ensure that fewer issues that require moderator attention slip through the cracks (please visit this thread if interested)
  • To the extent possible, we will take a proactive approach to help members avoid issues, rather than directly stepping in to act on problematic post/threads
  • We will provide a greater degree of transparency regarding moderator actions in cases where a member disagrees with a decision that was made, even if the decision itself is not reversed
  • We will gather additional feedback from the community: please feel free to share your ideas in this thread (the moderators will not comment on specific incidents however), or contact the moderators privately
  • Although constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, we will continue to maintain a firm stance against any form of bullying, trolling, or personal attacks.
To the latter point, I'd like to reiterate this statement that the moderation team posted several months ago:

Thank you very much for your consideration, and - as always - many thanks for your valued contribution to the forums!
Another sad day when a site built for learning and improving one's skills as a Pentax photographer, becomes a place for blame and name calling. A kind and thoughtful critique of a product or even a photo is how we learn and develop our skills. Civility seems to be a lost art these days and now it bleeds over onto a site like this. I support your efforts to filter out the destructiveness and continue to build on the original mission and vision of this Forum. Thank you for your dedication and work to this end.
08-27-2020, 08:30 AM - 2 Likes   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by mike22 Quote
Another sad day when a site built for learning and improving one's skills as a Pentax photographer, becomes a place for blame and name calling. A kind and thoughtful critique of a product or even a photo is how we learn and develop our skills. Civility seems to be a lost art these days and now it bleeds over onto a site like this. I support your efforts to filter out the destructiveness and continue to build on the original mission and vision of this Forum. Thank you for your dedication and work to this end.
The Moderators make this place what it is. I am a member of another photo discussion forum - there the owner is only around part time, and then he swoops in and declares a bunch of comments to be "political" - here there is almost always a moderator around, so discussions don't have time to heat up much before intervention cools it down again.
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