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07-04-2020, 01:03 AM - 1 Like   #16
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I'm not that active anymore in the forum due to work and family. It has been instrumental to my photography and I am still a supporter and a fan, not only off the site but of the community and its many great, patience, insightful, helpful, knowledgeable and friendly members. Let's keep it that way, don't lose the humor, politeness and healthy sarcasm. Thank you people for being great individuals and community which I am proud of to be a member.

07-04-2020, 01:12 AM - 3 Likes   #17
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Many thanks to Adam and the moderators for keeping this forum the friendly, helpful and informative place it is.
07-04-2020, 01:12 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
you can move the endless amount of "Pentax should do this", "I want a mirrorless", "I will/have switched brands because", "why I wont buy" and "Pentax needs a 900mm F1.4 lens for $20" posts. It is usually these posts that drive negativity
All those threads may be useful and helpful if the discussion remains civilized. Those who wants trolling can pick up any subject and any thread to do that.
07-04-2020, 01:30 AM - 2 Likes   #19
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While I fully understand the reasons ("bullying, trolling, or personal attacks", etc.), as a person with high respect to liberty and freedom of speech I have mixed feelings about it. Some (not only) younger guys need certain education, maybe more life experiences and behavior lessons. No doubts about that. On the other hand, this era tends to hypersensitivity and uncontrolled emotionalism, which is pushing the system into more and more regulations or hypertrophied political correctness. Spite creditable motivation of such regulations, the actual result is always the same: more restrictions and less freedom.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on. Let's ignore these "negative sentiment" circulators, or let's shortly and briefly explain them why their attitude is not proper. Nothing more than that.

QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
I always look to see how many posts someone has made before asking myself how much their opinion might be worth
That's a good point. 3 posts and pure negativity? Such a guy deserves to be disregarded.



Last edited by zzeitg; 07-04-2020 at 01:37 AM.
07-04-2020, 01:34 AM - 20 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Some observations and suggestions to follow up:
  1. Be much more strict in the "news and rumors" section than elsewhere. Most whiners do not invest effort in any other threads. They dwell on negative news.
  2. The rules should be applied with reference to user post history. There are a number of users who never help others or show images, but inject negativity everywhere and when called out on this whine about "criticism must be allowed". Usually a quick glance at the post history makes it clear.
  3. Why not create a separate corner/subforum for "personal product/brand wishes" and then consequently/actively move any posts and threads there from other areas?
    1. So they are not deleted but concentrated in one place and readers can choose to go there or not
    2. you can move the endless amount of "Pentax should do this", "I want a mirrorless", "I will/have switched brands because", "why I wont buy" and "Pentax needs a 900mm F1.4 lens for $20" posts
    3. It is usually these posts that drive negativity
  4. More aggressively move posts with (perceived) gear complaints to the "Troubleshooting and beginner help" forum. 95% of gear complaints are user skill issues, even if the posters will not want to hear it and have used cameras for ages. All the whining about proper using of autofocus fits there (if not into the personal wishes section).
Just a related comment...

Let's all of us avoid calling other members "whiners", "trolls", "fanboys", etc. This kind of language is just one factor that alienates some folks, both new and established members, from our otherwise great forums (I've been here a good few years myself, and I bristle every time I come across this). We can disagree, even robustly, with each other... but there's never justification for calling names or being rude, even if we find someone else's views frustrating and/or annoying. We're intelligent enough to shoot our chosen brand... We are surely intelligent enough to use facts, logic, courtesy and civil language in our dealings with others

Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-04-2020 at 02:22 AM.
07-04-2020, 02:04 AM - 3 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Just a related comment...

Let's all of us avoid calling other members "whiners", "trolls", "fanboys", etc. This kind of language is just one factor that alienates some folks, both new and established members, from our otherwise great forums (I've been here a good few years myself, and I bristle every time I come across this). We can disagree, even robustly, with each other... but there's never justification for calling names or being rude, even if we find someone else's views frustrating and/or annoying. We're intelligent enough to shoot our chosen brand... We surely intelligent enough to use facts, logic, courtesy and civil language in our dealings with others
This so much, Mike. It's perfectly fine for people to correct things that are wrong, or to simply express a differing opinion, but there's a difference between dismissing an argument and dismissing the person.
07-04-2020, 02:34 AM - 7 Likes   #22
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Thank you, Adam, and the mods for the work you do. This is an enjoyable place to spend time at and I am sure we can all do a little better at putting the Golden Rule into action.

(In this case, "Say unto others what you would have them say unto you.")

07-04-2020, 02:43 AM - 7 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
"Say unto others what you would have them say unto you."
... or even, "Say unto others what you'd have them say unto your wife, mother or granny"

I've occasionally noticed those who are a little too aggressive justify this by saying they're quite happy to be spoken to in equally-direct terms. Not everyone has extra-thick skin, though...
07-04-2020, 02:48 AM - 7 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
... or even, "Say unto others what you'd have them say unto your wife, mother or granny"

I've occasionally noticed those who are a little too aggressive justify this by saying they're quite happy to be spoken to in equally-direct terms. Not everyone has extra-thick skin, though...
True. I've often thought that the fact that we all use English here to communicate can actually lead to misunderstandings.

The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language. If that is true how much more so for those for whom English is their second, or third, or fourth language?
07-04-2020, 03:44 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
True. I've often thought that the fact that we all use English here to communicate can actually lead to misunderstandings.

The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language. If that is true how much more so for those for whom English is their second, or third, or fourth language?
True, but it isnít just the language Itself that separates nations. National culture plays an equally big part in creating misunderstandings. I say this not to excuse a lack of consideration, but to highlight it.

I know Australians (of my vintage, anyway) tend to have an excess of ironic humour and iconoclasm that can often be taken for a lack of respect or seriousness, but while true as a generality it is no more true of some individuals than other national stereotypes, in that we donít exhibit those characteristics at all times (sometimes, even in the same interaction).

On Adamís post at the head of this thread, I have noticed an occasional outbreak of zealotry In defence of the brand, but I donít usually take these to be personal attacks, in spite of the vehemence with which points can be pursued. I do mostly take them to be expressions of passion for the brand, even if the posters could consider Adamís advice to reflect on the way in which their responses could be framed.

I do take the point, though, that newcomers to the Forums could be a little startled by such passion, especially when they come from cultures where more considered responses are the norm. Iíll do my best not to provoke, in spite of my national culture.
07-04-2020, 05:18 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
This so much, Mike. It's perfectly fine for people to correct things that are wrong, or to simply express a differing opinion, but there's a difference between dismissing an argument and dismissing the person.
I agree.
As long as the said person isn't used to to kind of comments we're talking about.
07-04-2020, 05:22 AM - 3 Likes   #27
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I'd like to take this time to not only thank Adam and the mods, but also the many helpful and gracious members of the forum. I'm a proud Pentax owner and I've learned a lot from reading various threads and studying multiple pictures. Likewise, I hope I've helped others in a small way through my posts. We are a community of students and teachers of the art of photography, the common thread being our love of the art. In a perfect world we would have a perfect forum to discuss a perfect brand. Unfortunately, nothing is perfect so let enjoy what we have and be thankful for the joys we receive from taking picture of the beautiful world around us. In conclusion, I'd like to remind everyone of the ignore option, if someone annoys you, just put them on ignore and be done with them.
07-04-2020, 06:05 AM   #28
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Perhaps moving those threads to the General Talk area.
07-04-2020, 06:35 AM - 7 Likes   #29
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"The rules should be applied with reference to user post history. There are a number of users who never help others or show images, but inject negativity everywhere and when called out on this whine about "criticism must be allowed". Usually a quick glance at the post history makes it clear."

As a person with years of experience as a Moderator on a very busy site; I disagree with the "rules should be applied with reference to user post history". The rules should apply to everyone; as anyone can make a disruptive, negative post. The posts themselves are what the rules should govern, not the history of the poster.

Another mentioned for new members to have a "read only" membership for a couple of weeks or so. I think this would discourage new membership greatly, and they would simply decide it's not worth joining.

I applaud Adam & his team, for stepping up, and putting members on notice, so everyone can enjoy the forums!
07-04-2020, 06:35 AM - 2 Likes   #30
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I may not be particularly active here, but I do appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining a site like this, as well as the kindness and consideration shown by members to others. I had not seen any of the poor form that Adam refers to, and hope I never do.
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