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07-05-2020, 03:40 PM   #121
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It is always a good idea to respond to what is said in the post to which you are responding. I am not a fan of facebook, My post was referring to one group there - the Pentaxians. All of the posts I saw there had real names, some I knew from PF.

I fear my posts have just encouraged the kind of argumentative behavior and non-sequitur responses which turns so many of us off.
I will not be responding to this thread again. Not an important enough issue.

Thanks to Adam and the moderators for their hard work to keep PF a pleasant place.

07-05-2020, 03:48 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I fear my posts have just encouraged the kind of argumentative behavior and non-sequitur responses which turns so many of us off.
I will not be responding to this thread again. Not an important enough issue.
I hope my own responses didn't contribute to that decision, Mike. If they did, then my apologies - that wasn't my intention at all. I think yours was a valid and worthwhile idea to raise, even if I myself don't support it for the reasons I mentioned...
07-05-2020, 03:59 PM - 5 Likes   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
Not at all. And I believe I did not say anything that might support such statement.
The only time there is moderation on this forum is to deal with rude or abusive language or trolling. If one is arguing against moderation, then one is arguing for the right to be disagreeable or offensive.
Itís pretty binary.
07-05-2020, 04:12 PM - 1 Like   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
There seems to be a lot of fear around this issue. It was just an idea.
Not fear, caution. I have been threatened online, a very legitimate threat! I will take all precautions possible to protect my identity. It's nothing against your suggesting the idea, at all.


Last edited by csa; 07-05-2020 at 04:20 PM.
07-05-2020, 04:21 PM - 1 Like   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I fear my posts have just encouraged the kind of argumentative behavior and non-sequitur responses which turns so many of us off.I will not be responding to this thread again.
I'm sorry you saw the discussion that way. I am interested in and respect all viewpoints, and I thought that all of the contributions on the point were calm and reasoned, with nothing personal. A radical change of policy was proposed, so people were bound to have various views on it, and comparisons with the success or otherwise of the policies of other forums are both inevitable and useful.
07-05-2020, 04:39 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I fear my posts have just encouraged the kind of argumentative behavior and non-sequitur responses which turns so many of us off.
I can understand the "argumentative" part (although, in all honesty, as Lord Lucan says proposing a very deep change to the rules is bound to attract a discussion, as it should). I however do not understand how the responses can be non-sequitur when they are directly addressing the point.
07-05-2020, 04:52 PM - 9 Likes   #127
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Well, if the mods are struggling a bit I can always lend them my wife for a while. She'll sort everybody out..... probally make some of you sell some lenses as well.

07-05-2020, 05:05 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I can understand the "argumentative" part (although, in all honesty, as Lord Lucan says proposing a very deep change to the rules is bound to attract a discussion, as it should). I however do not understand how the responses can be non-sequitur when they are directly addressing the point.
A non sequitur requires the argument to depend on the conclusion. I see none in this thread, but I’m happy to be shown one.
07-05-2020, 05:29 PM   #129
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I have only started trouble in one thread that I know of, which it seems some moderators also like. Guess which thread that is after looking at my signature That’s ok, I now avoid that thread completely but I seldom will now comment anymore on any post, just because of a few posters that are still here. PF is now a better experience for me if I do not post anything except photos.. Ok, that is my opinion and I will not discuss anymore.. for the PF databank!
07-05-2020, 05:34 PM - 2 Likes   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
Again, this is a private site; you and I and every member agreed to the terms when joining. "Salami" tactics do not apply, nor does "internet freedom"; rather Moderators keep the posts and threads within the terms of service. If any member is unhappy with this, they are welcome to start their own site and let free rein prevail.
Regardless to this forum, this rule "private site- the owner can do whatever he/she wants" is outdated for so many big social media sites. When the owner sells the data of the users, and become a billionaire, and sponsors own or the group's political or business agendas, the law and regulations for the balance of private and public interests and public protection, and even the national security should apply.


When we talk about hobby forum, the balance between private ownership- users is fragile for any forums of this type these days. When the owner (usually when the site is on the pick of popularity) forgets about the balance of fair moderation and public content generating, then the site usually goes downhill. I've seen that so many times.

So, the modern rule for the long forum life can be the mutual respect between the owner and the users.

So far, PF is one of the best I've known for this respect.

I consider this thread as an attempt from the owner to keep this mutual respect going.
07-05-2020, 06:05 PM - 2 Likes   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
If a site removed every section that some don't like, there wouldn't be a site left. If any member finds a section not to their liking, simply skip over it.
Rumors are unhealthy by nature. Do we have a baseless gossip section too? What I am saying is if you have a section of the forum that is already by nature below the line then you are inviting poor behavior. It is a simple concept. keep it real!
07-05-2020, 06:34 PM - 1 Like   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Well, if the mods are struggling a bit I can always lend them my wife for a while. She'll sort everybody out..... probally make some of you sell some lenses as well.
Well if that's the case she will get a thumbs down from me, I'm not about to sell any of my totally cheap lens......before the k-New is on the market.
07-05-2020, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #133
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Good morning.
Keep up the good work PF staff

What a shallow world we live in now where an unrelated forum can disrupt.our own.
Welcome to the future
Smile

Dave
07-05-2020, 10:00 PM - 1 Like   #134
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If we can't voice our concerns with the brand here, on the brand's forums, them where is that discourse allowed to take place?

07-05-2020, 10:22 PM - 12 Likes   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by nzondlo Quote
If we can't voice our concerns with the brand here, on the brand's forums, them where is that discourse allowed to take place?
This is not the brand's forum, Nathan. Nor is it some sort of public service. It is privately owned, no association with Ricoh.

Particularly, it's not some sort of place to vent - I don't come here to witness other people stamping their little feet over something they don't understand. I insist on this place being better than that, or if that just happens thread after thread, it's not worth my while paying for it annually. I don't sell stuff in the Marketplace, my Loyal Site Supporter status is because ... I support this site and its members.

People can tell very quickly if someone is just a whining loser. Or a fanboi. Particularly over time - they can't hide it.

But if people see all sides of your character - if you've invested in *them* first - it's amazing how big a criticism you can propose.

In one thread I've admitted I've supported the lawsuit initiated against Ricoh over the aperture block issue, even supplying the lawyers with advice. No shortage of the people I like have then disagreed with me, but all factual, all respectful so far, because there's no doubt I'm one of their brothers.

So, it's how you conduct yourself in a community, what you put into it first.

For someone who can't be bothered joining in, they're unhappy with their life and their hobby and just want somewhere to complain, I'll suggest DPR - basement dwelling trolls and open warfare between brand supporters are de rigeur.

Last edited by clackers; 07-06-2020 at 03:39 AM.
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