[csa]

Why have a news and rumors section? News is reported in the main forum section whilst rumors are so baseless they are usually worthless. Ricoh keep such a tight ship there are no rumor coming from them. Rumors themselves(a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth) are unhealthy and buy having a rumors section the moderators are inviting unhealthy discussion. Pentaxforums should really take some responsibility here and remove the news and rumors section.

If a site removed every section that some don't like, there wouldn't be a site left. If any member finds a section not to their liking, simply skip over it. I read the rumor section, and take most of it with a grain of salt, but still enjoy reading, because there might be a glimmer of something new being discussed, that's coming.

[csa]

I think it is pretty clear that there are only a few things that get you banned.

1. Attacking fellow members personally. This should be obvious, but if a member posts in a thread, even if he/she doesn't have good points, they shouldn't feel personally threatened or attacked.

2. Bringing politics/religion into things. Back in the "good" old days we had a P and R section of the forum that people could joust over these things and it wasn't a good situation. Constant attacks that turned pretty personal. People didn't really come there to learn, but merely to argue. Adam in his wisdom got rid of it quite awhile ago.

3. Constant advertising of other brands in Pentax threads. The worst offenders aren't around, but there have been those who brought up Sony or Fuji really routinely in Pentax threads.

I am sure there are other things. But those feel like pretty clear issues. Probably most of us have stepped a little too close to the line one time or another and a simple Mea Culpa will be enough to take care of it. At the same time, if we want new users to feel comfortable here, it is paramount to welcome them with warmth and kindness.

As a Moderator on another forum, I can tell you getting banned is not easy. I'm sure it's the same here, but when someone consistently disrupts the forums, attacks others, there is a record that Moderators make. Administrators then go by that record, before issuing a "time out", and if the "time out" doesn't work, then eventually a total ban.


Now, pornographic, etc., will get an immediate ban. But, members are not aware of the work that goes on behind the scenes, with the Moderators and Administrators. No site wishes to lose members by banning them, and will go to extreme majors to try to educate that member, as to their behavior.

It's interesting also, that some feel the Moderators are over bearing; yet when a call comes up for new Moderators; those same people suddenly become invisible. A site is only as good as the management behind it; and I feel this is a premier site!

[Class A]

"...remain courteous and friendly at all times..."

I look forward to all posts that do not adhere to this recommendation and are reported to be either deleted or edited.

Unfortunately, this clearly has not happened in the past.

The past practice could be acceptable to allow less than friendly posts as part of a robust discussion but then courteous posts should not be deleted because of an "off-topic" judgement. In my view

• off-topic posts can easily be ignored. Rude posts, however, cannot as easily be ignored because they usually are engaging in some topic that is of interest to many readers and it is not possible to decide to ignore the post until one has come to the offending part.
• for the above reasons, "off-topic" posts should not be considered an offence. For some they are interesting, for others they are not, but as long as the discussion style remains civil, they cause no real harm.
• it may be argued that "off-topic" posts can derail a thread to an extent where the thread loses its value. However, it can be very tricky to decide whether something is "off-topic" or not. As long as the thread continues with the main topic still being discussed, seasoned with some "off-topic" themes, it shouldn't be considered a problem that there are some "off-topic" themes.
• let's face it, most threads contain some diversions and almost all longer threads fizzle out into completely off-topic subjects. Most of the time this is considered acceptable or part of the norm. Only some "off-topic" topics seem to be deemed problematic which makes it difficult to see the fairness in such an approach.

Pentaxforums has recently been mentioned on Facebook as an unpleasant place by multiple users. The cause of that was not that threads weren't focused enough, i.e., that there was too much "off-topic" discussion. The cause for these expression of dislike was that users were rude and a generally unpleasant style of arguing.

In my view this suggests to take rude and overly zealous posts much more seriously than the odd "off-topic" digression.

I may add that being too strict with threads staying on topic has the potential of drying out discussions and stopping engagement. I don't think that's what we want for this forum.

Finally, I believe the practice of closing a thread is sometimes used too quickly.
Closing a thread hurts those the most who wanted to continue with some discussion and/or keep subscribed to discussions they were interested in.
The posters who caused the thread to be closed thus cause everyone to suffer for their behaviour.
It's like sending the whole class to clean the toilets because two out of many pupils caused some trouble.

I suggest to target individual posters who are endangering a thread, rather than closing the whole thread for everyone.

P.S.: I think Pentax criticism should be allowed and passionate responses to such criticism should also be allowed. It's the tone of the respective posts that is important to get right, not the viewpoints.

[Class A]

P.P.S: I was saddened when I saw the negative voices on Facebook about Pentaxforums.com. This forum has been a fantastic community and I would like to see it thrive in the future.

Also, many moderators do an absolutely great job. I'm grateful for their service.

[gatorguy]

"...remain courteous and friendly at all times..."

I look forward to all posts that do not adhere to this recommendation and are reported to be either deleted or edited.

Unfortunately, this clearly has not happened in the past.

The past practice could be acceptable to allow less than friendly posts as part of a robust discussion but then courteous posts should not be deleted because of an "off-topic" judgement. In my view

• off-topic posts can easily be ignored. Rude posts, however, cannot as easily be ignored because they usually are engaging in some topic that is of interest to many readers and it is not possible to decide to ignore the post until one has come to the offending part.
• for the above reasons, "off-topic" posts should not be considered an offence. For some they are interesting, for others they are not, but as long as the discussion style remains civil, they cause no real harm.
• it may be argued that "off-topic" posts can derail a thread to an extent where the thread loses its value. However, it can be very tricky to decide whether something is "off-topic" or not. As long as the thread continues with the main topic still being discussed, seasoned with some "off-topic" themes, it shouldn't be considered a problem that there are some "off-topic" themes.
• let's face it, most threads contain some diversions and almost all longer threads fizzle out into completely off-topic subjects. Most of the time this is considered acceptable or part of the norm. Only some "off-topic" topics seem to be deemed problematic which makes it difficult to see the fairness in such an approach.

FWIW It's common when removing an overly egregious post to also needing to remove other members posts that reference or quote it but otherwise are perfectly fine. If not done the "bad post" lives on or those responses to it don't make sense.

[FozzFoster]

just for the News and Rumors section and no other area of Pentax Forums. Why not have a thumbs down just like the thumbs up for each post.

+1 really like this idea!

[UncleVanya]

FWIW It's common when removing an overly egregious post to also needing to remove other members posts that reference or quote it but otherwise are perfectly fine. Otherwise the "bad post" lives on or those responses to it don't make sense.

Or a lot of editing and thread cleanup can take a while. I'm grateful someone else owns that job not me. I've done it and it is a hell of a lot of work.

[csa]

Oh indeed it's a lot of work, with little appreciation!

[Fenwoodian]

.
Freedom of speech does not apply to forums like this!

Being a former owner/creator /webmaster of 3 websites (I've sold them all) I believe that websites that are privately owned (I assume Adam owns PentaxForums.com) have every right to do with that website whatever they want (restrict/eliminate comments, modify/delete any content, restrict any/all visitors, terminate/sell the website). On one of my websites, I tired of the valueless comments that were being posted, so I deleted all existing comments and terminated the ability of visitors to my website to comment in the future. Adam has 100% control of the website, it's not a democracy nor do visitors have any rights. This website is private property and we are all here as a guests who must adhere to any and all rules that the website owner specifies..

However, with publicly owned websites (like Facebook, Google/YouTube), I believe that there may be legal requirements to adhere to the freedom of speech laws that apply in jurisdictions where that website can be accessed.

So, we are all here and participating only by the approval, and good grace of Mr. Adam. We are fortunate that Adam is a supremely fair, patient, and understanding person. The overall friendly character of this forum is a direct reflection of its' owner.

.

[csa]

.
Freedom of speech does not apply to forums like this!

Being a former owner/creator /webmaster of 3 websites (I've sold them all) I believe that websites that are privately owned (I assume Adam owns PentaxForums.com) have every right to do with that website whatever they want (restrict/eliminate comments, modify any content, terminate/sell the website). In other words, Adam has 100% control of the website, it's not a democracy nor do visitors have any rights what-so-ever. This website is private property and we are here as a guest of Adam.

However, with publicly owned websites (like Facebook, Google/YouTube), I believe that there may be legal requirements to adhere to freedom of speech laws that apply in jurisdictions where that website can be accessed.

So, we are all here and participating only by the approval, and good will of Mr. Adam. We are very fortunate that Adam is a very fair, patient, and understanding person.

.

Also; it may be, once a post is made, it is no longer the "property" of the member, rather the site.

[Wheatfield]

Yes. And while I'd support much more the way of self-responsibility, others might vote for firm hand policy and directivity ordered from above. If majority is satisfied with shrinking freedom, then that's the way to go. (It's regress instead progress if you ask me, but that's just me. Anyway I'm talking more about common principles now, not necessarily in relation to this forum.)

Anytime you walk onto someone else’s property, be it their house, their place of business, their country, or an internet forum, you are subject to the rules that the owner has set out. The option is to obey said rules, suffer whatever consequences are set out for breaking them, or exercise your freedom by going somewhere that has rules you agree with.
You seem to be conflating freedom of speech, something that doesn’t exist in any society on this planet, with freedom to be offensive and disagreeable.
When freedoms collide, one person’s freedoms are going to be moved to the back of the bus. In the subject at hand, the freedom to be offensive and disagreeable is taking a back seat to others’ freedom to not have to tolerate someone who is a pox on the forum.
The choice is clear, choose to be kind, and find a way to put your thoughts out without being derogatory, insulting or mean spirited, or choose to find a different venue to vent your spleen.
You still have your freedom of speech, you just don’t have the freedom to be offensive about it.

[hjoseph7]

Don't drink and Post !

[Wheatfield]

Don't drink and Post !

Sometimes those are my best posts.

[csa]

One other thing to mention; many comment about disrespectful, trolling, etc., posts. I wonder if those commenting on a particular post also take the time to hit the alert moderator button? Moderators cannot possibly read each & every post; and members can assist them by using this button, if they think a post needs attention.

[Parallax]

Don't drink and Post !

This is excellent advice.
You should drink then post. That way you avoid spilling on the keyboard.

One other thing to mention; many comment about disrespectful, trolling, etc., posts. I wonder if those commenting on a particular post also take the time to hit the alert moderator button? Moderators cannot possibly read each & every post; and members can assist them by using this button, if they think a post needs attention.

Exactly.
Also, if you see an inappropriate post that you think should be reported we ask that you not reply to the post; especially if it is negatively directed at you. It makes it much easier to quickly and fairly deal with it if it hasn't been replied to.