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07-03-2020, 07:32 PM - 135 Likes   #1
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An important message from the moderators

To the PF community:

I hope everyone is doing well and staying healthy in these unprecedented times (please check out our statement on the coronavirus if you haven't already). Like many other businesses, the camera industry has also suffered in the past months (e.g., low camera sales figures and more recently, the sale of the Olympus camera division, etc.). Consequently, even though it would seem that Pentax is coping quite well in comparison, we've been observing a steady rise in negative sentiment toward the Pentax brand throughout the community, which in some cases has led to unpleasant confrontations in forum threads and difficult decisions by the moderators.

In line with my mission of Pentax Forums being a friendly and inclusive community for Pentax users, we are going to be taking a series of steps to help minimize these kinds of unpleasantries going forward.
  • We are seeking additional moderators across multiple time zones to ensure that fewer issues that require moderator attention slip through the cracks (please visit this thread if interested)
  • To the extent possible, we will take a proactive approach to help members avoid issues, rather than directly stepping in to act on problematic post/threads
  • We will provide a greater degree of transparency regarding moderator actions in cases where a member disagrees with a decision that was made, even if the decision itself is not reversed
  • We will gather additional feedback from the community: please feel free to share your ideas in this thread (the moderators will not comment on specific incidents however), or contact the moderators privately
  • Although constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, we will continue to maintain a firm stance against any form of bullying, trolling, or personal attacks.
To the latter point, I'd like to reiterate this statement that the moderation team posted several months ago:

QuoteQuote:
In recent weeks and months we have received feedback - primarily from new members, but a few established ones too - regarding unnecessarily harsh, dismissive, rude and/or aggressive responses, especially (but not only) when someone raises concerns, doubts or criticisms of the Pentax brand.

PentaxForums is a brand-specific enthusiast site, and most of us here are Pentax enthusiasts. New members with critical views of the brand have a responsibility to understand the dynamics of the community they're participating in and consider the effect of their posts, and we've updated our Welcome & Forum Rules sticky post to reflect this, with guidelines for new members. Even so, all of our members - new and old - have a responsibility to respect each other's opinions (even when we disagree), remain courteous and friendly at all times, keep an open mind, and avoid jumping to conclusions, making personal comments or name-calling (terms such as "fanboy" or "troll", for example). We each represent these forums whenever we post, and it's incumbent on us to present our community as welcoming, respectful, tolerant and helpful to all.

We might reasonably hope that our most established members in particular would take this responsibility to heart, to ensure the continued popularity and longevity of our community and the brands we all support.

When faced with a post where you feel the only option is to dismiss it or "shoot it down", please consider the wider effects of your response. If rules have been broken, report the post to a moderator using the "yellow triangle" report post feature (not by PM, please) and avoid further involvement in the discussion until a moderating decision has been made. Otherwise, please be mindful of the standards referred to above when responding.

Most of all, please strive to be friendly and respectful at all times. There is never just one way to offer (or counter) an opinion. However ill-conceived or inflammatory a post may seem, responding in kind does nothing to help our community and its reputation.

The moderating team will not hesitate to take appropriate action against members who consistently impact the forum atmosphere in a negative way.
Thank you very much for your consideration, and - as always - many thanks for your valued contribution to the forums!


Adam
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07-03-2020, 07:37 PM - 14 Likes   #2
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Thank you. I think this is a positive and reasonable direction.
07-03-2020, 07:49 PM - 11 Likes   #3
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Thank you and the moderators team for the big and continuous effort in keeping our home in order.
07-03-2020, 08:10 PM - 15 Likes   #4
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This has always been one of the most civil and useful sites of its type on the Internet. It is a shame that some folks have recently been venting their frustrations in a negative manner. I appreciate everyone's efforts – especially our moderators – to keep our forum respectful and courteous.

Thanks for this message and these steps. I am only sorry this was necessary.

Don Simmons

07-03-2020, 08:17 PM - 11 Likes   #5
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I generally stop participating in a thread if it starts to get nasty. Glad to see this is being addressed.
07-03-2020, 08:29 PM - 8 Likes   #6
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Thank you Adam. As others have said the Pentax Forum has generally been a very pleasant place to come for Pentaxians like me. I enjoy the camaraderie and the interesting threads, posts and commentary about photography and Pentax equipment.

I appreciate the efforts of you and moderators in handling difficult situations that have arisen and will arise in the future. Your thread reinforcing the rules and expectations of the PF, is timely.
07-03-2020, 09:18 PM - 6 Likes   #7
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Kudos to you and all the moderators Adam. It's a sad fact that there are people in the world who don't feel complete unless they're bitching and moaning about something. Unfortunately Pentax Forums are not immune to such childish behavior. Why they cannot understand that their argumentative behavior accomplishes nothing is beyond me. Has there ever been ONE instance where after 10 or 12 nasty back and forth posts one of the combatants suddenly shouts from the roof top "Eureka! I see your point and you have changed my mind." I've never seen it. Of course when I come across these arguments it does not take me long to shake my head in dismay and simply ignore that particular thread. I'm happy to see you putting these egg heads on notice.
07-03-2020, 09:18 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Very interesting, and very timely. I'm reminded of a rather shameless thread that sprouted a lot of acerbic commentary toward Pentax, the thread being Come on Pentax, where's the next 645Z?.


Last edited by Silent Street; 07-03-2020 at 09:49 PM.
07-03-2020, 10:24 PM - 4 Likes   #9
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Thanks to Adam and the moderators for making this a great site. Many people and companies are under pressure at this time. 2020 hasn't been an easy year.

I have owned Olympus equipment since the original OM1 and feel sorry for them. Don't want to see this happen to Pentax and I appreciate anything people can do here to help. Considered starting a thread setting a specific time for people to purchase a new piece of Pentax gear. Not sure where it should be posted. Even if everyone bought a T shirt, cap, wireless remote, etc. it would give Pentax/Ricoh a little economic stimulus. I just purchased the 100 year hotshoe cover and T shirt. Other equipment will follow.

Thanks,
barondla
07-03-2020, 11:03 PM - 2 Likes   #10
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Thanks Adam and the moderator team. I agree with everything in this thread. We are in tumultuous times and all need to be considerate and think about how our responses may be received.
07-03-2020, 11:41 PM - 1 Like   #11
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Pentax, please help us to help you!
07-03-2020, 11:48 PM - 10 Likes   #12
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Some observations and suggestions to follow up:
  1. Be much more strict in the "news and rumors" section than elsewhere. Most whiners do not invest effort in any other threads. They dwell on negative news.
  2. The rules should be applied with reference to user post history. There are a number of users who never help others or show images, but inject negativity everywhere and when called out on this whine about "criticism must be allowed". Usually a quick glance at the post history makes it clear.
  3. Why not create a separate corner/subforum for "personal product/brand wishes" and then consequently/actively move any posts and threads there from other areas?
    1. So they are not deleted but concentrated in one place and readers can choose to go there or not
    2. you can move the endless amount of "Pentax should do this", "I want a mirrorless", "I will/have switched brands because", "why I wont buy" and "Pentax needs a 900mm F1.4 lens for $20" posts
    3. It is usually these posts that drive negativity
  4. More aggressively move posts with (perceived) gear complaints to the "Troubleshooting and beginner help" forum. 95% of gear complaints are user skill issues, even if the posters will not want to hear it and have used cameras for ages. All the whining about proper using of autofocus fits there (if not into the personal wishes section).
07-04-2020, 12:03 AM - 3 Likes   #13
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I would recommend that new registered users have a read-only phase, where they can read but not post. Maybe a week or two. Supposedly they already read the forum before registering, but this is not necessarily the case. With read-only access they could familiarize themselves with the forum

I am not sure if this is applied already or not but a read-only phase for those memebers who post trouble could help. As a cool-down phase.
07-04-2020, 12:04 AM - 6 Likes   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by ismaelg Quote
Thank you and the moderators team for the big and continuous effort in keeping our home in order.
QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
This has always been one of the most civil and useful sites of its type on the Internet. It is a shame that some folks have recently been venting their frustrations in a negative manner. I appreciate everyone's efforts – especially our moderators – to keep our forum respectful and courteous.
QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Thank you Adam. As others have said the Pentax Forum has generally been a very pleasant place to come for Pentaxians like me. I enjoy the camaraderie and the interesting threads, posts and commentary about photography and Pentax equipment.I appreciate the efforts of you and moderators in handling difficult situations that have arisen and will arise in the future. Your thread reinforcing the rules and expectations of the PF, is timely.
QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Thanks to Adam and the moderators for making this a great site. Many people and companies are under pressure at this time. 2020 hasn't been an easy year.
QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
Thanks Adam and the moderator team. I agree with everything in this thread. We are in tumultuous times and all need to be considerate and think about how our responses may be received.
+1 to all these comments. My thanks also to Adam and all the mods for putting in so much time and effort to keep this site so enjoyable.

The changes Adam outlines all sound sensible and welcome.

Last edited by Des; 07-04-2020 at 02:45 AM.
07-04-2020, 12:41 AM - 3 Likes   #15
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I appreciate the sometimes difficult job that Adam and the moderators have to do. I prefer not to read most of the negative comments because they are rarely soundly based. I always look to see how many posts someone has made before asking myself how much their opinion might be worth (I can think of examples in the lens reviews where someone has disparaged a lens but they only have single-digit posts). It is probably difficult to manage but I think there should be a mechanism to restrict posting rights in certain parts of the Forums until someone has participated for a while - or maybe that should be a history of participation that can be reviewed so a moderator can see where they are "coming from".
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