[grahame]

I think "which system to die next" is more for the camera manufacturers, not for users. For example, when Canon nikon introduced their mirror-less systems with new mounts and lenses, how much difference for photographers it is comparing with switching to a new band?
To me, having Pentax SLR system + Sony mirror-less, is similar to Canon DSLR users adding canon mirrorless.
In other words: If most canon users switch to their own mirror-less, can we say Canon DSLR is dying?

[luftfluss]

btw, folks, have you noticed DPR have caught up with this, and I'd say the edototial in quite balanced - haven't read the comments yet,

As is typical for DPR, the comments are decidedly unbalanced.

[bertwert]

btw, folks, have you noticed DPR have caught up with this, and I'd say the edototial in quite balanced - haven't read the comments yet,

I just don't understand why some people can't get it into their silly little heads that there are people that prefer looking into an optical viewfinder rather than their eye forced onto a little screen.

[bertwert]

Also, a lot of commenters all seem to want Pentax to die, as if having Pentax around impacts their personal well being... if you don't like Pentax, then don't buy it. Simple as that. It's the exact same way I don't go around preaching that Sony should die...

[Wheatfield]

I think "which system to die next" is more for the camera manufacturers, not for users. For example, when Canon nikon introduced their mirror-less systems with new mounts and lenses, how much difference for photographers it is comparing with switching to a new band?
To me, having Pentax SLR system + Sony mirror-less, is similar to Canon DSLR users adding canon mirrorless.
In other words: If most canon users switch to their own mirror-less, can we say Canon DSLR is dying?

Well yes, if Canon stops making new DLSRs and stops supporting the mount with new products, and stops repairing legacy products along with cutting off the supply of parts, then the Canon DSLR is dead. This would be the same for any company's model line.
The issue is going to be about ongoing support for old lens mounts. Canon has, in it's past, killed one mount, leaving users of that mount outdoors without a coat on a cold day.
In a shrinking market, these companies are going to need to make some pretty tough decisions. If, and I expect they will, put all their eggs into their new mounts, how long can users of the old mounts expect support?
Canon showed us how short a time that can be, with support of the FD mount dropped entirely in some markets as quickly as a few years after the introduction of the EF mount, and that was when the market was on fire.

[grahame]

The issue is going to be about ongoing support for old lens mounts. Canon has, in it's past, killed one mount, leaving users of that mount outdoors without a coat on a cold day.

Exactly! This is TEH reason I left Canon many years ago.
Canon did very well after they changed FD mount to EOS, but I was left there, helpless. EOS camera to me at that time was same as a different brand camera. The only thing they share was the Canon label, means nothing to me.
Sony A mount is almost dead. Only because Sony E mount is doing well, we say "A - mount is fading out", rather than "A-MOUNT is dead". But for users, their A mount lenses are hopeless. To get the best out from E mount camera, native E mount lenses are required. -- to me, that is switching system.

Let's appreciate Pentax's persistency and loyalty.

- if you need mirror-less camera, just add a mirrorless system to your collection. It is going to be the same movement if there is a Pentax mirrorless available" buying new camera, new lens, new battery, maybe new flash and remote.

[fs999]

I wondered about that, but wouldn't it rather contradict the previous 30 minutes?

No. The pentaprism is still there

[alex66]

Well yes, if Canon stops making new DLSRs and stops supporting the mount with new products, and stops repairing legacy products along with cutting off the supply of parts, then the Canon DSLR is dead. This would be the same for any company's model line.
The issue is going to be about ongoing support for old lens mounts. Canon has, in it's past, killed one mount, leaving users of that mount outdoors without a coat on a cold day.
In a shrinking market, these companies are going to need to make some pretty tough decisions. If, and I expect they will, put all their eggs into their new mounts, how long can users of the old mounts expect support?
Canon showed us how short a time that can be, with support of the FD mount dropped entirely in some markets as quickly as a few years after the introduction of the EF mount, and that was when the market was on fire.

I got caught on that, has a lot of Canon gear at the time, when someone stole them all in a break in I bought an ME super and one of the earlier AF bodies along with a Contax and 50mm Zeiss.

Any how I think with in 5 years Pentax will be the only SLR maker the others dropping out of the market as it will not have enough stock movement for them. Pentax have already become a more niche player in volume compared to the big 3 so if their manufacturing lines are in step with this then I would say they have a better than most chance of being in business in 2030. Sadly I think Nikon could be the next to fall, they seemed to fall well behind when AF came along and an awful lot of people jumped to the Canon eco system. Now they are trying to compete not with the giant that is Canon but Sony who have a good few years in the FF mirrorless field and a lot more lenses to show for it. The market is shrinking, I hold that any camera from the last few years is good enough but for the most particular uses so people don't want to keep renewing cameras, there was a boom with the uptake of digital. Pentax's statement of intent to keep making SLR's will garner them new users who enjoy the experiance of the pentaprism, they will see a brand that will continue to support them.

[Wheatfield]

Exactly! This is TEH reason I left Canon many years ago.
Canon did very well after they changed FD mount to EOS, but I was left there, helpless. EOS camera to me at that time was same as a different brand camera. The only thing they share was the Canon label, means nothing to me.
Sony A mount is almost dead. Only because Sony E mount is doing well, we say "A - mount is fading out", rather than "A-MOUNT is dead". But for users, their A mount lenses are hopeless. To get the best out from E mount camera, native E mount lenses are required. -- to me, that is switching system.

Let's appreciate Pentax's persistency and loyalty

My thoughts exactly. It doesn't matter much if the nameplate stays the same, if support is dropped (and that includes mount compatibility) you have pretty much changed brands. The reality is the same, whether it's a different company or a different model line.

I was selling cameras for a living when the EOS cameras came to market. I remember the Canon rep waxing on about how FD users had nothing to worry about, this new stuff wasn't going to affect the lives of the FD mount users.

And it didn't, until it did. And when it did, it did so in a very big way.

A friend of mine bought a T90 when it came out, as he figured that would probably be the last of the FD line, and it was a pretty slick camera. It broke a year or so out of warranty. It decided it didn't want to fire a flash any more. He sent it to Canon Canada, and a few weeks later had a box of camera parts returned to him with a note that the camera was beyond repair. Included was a voucher for a discount on an EOS 650.

Nice of Canon, they took a camera with minor issue, trashed it and offered to sell him a camera that was unusable with the dozen lenses he owned.
I recall he continued to use his F1 until it broke, but eventually he sold all his FD mount equipment.
He owned some Nikon digital stuff for a while, but he eventually settled into the Fuji brand.
Canon, of course, doesn't care about that sort of thing, as long as they sell new stuff, they have no worries about who gets stepped on.

This time around though, it's going to be a very different story. In the 1980s, they changed mounts to ride the autofocus wave, and the economy was thriving. They could have slapped their name and a lens mount onto a wet turd and people would have bought it. That was what the 1980s were like.
Now, the world economy is, to be kind, challenged. They are pulling back from a declining market to concentrate on another declining market.
They can't afford to support the EF mount as well as the RF mount, so the EF mount is a dead man walking. They will make adapters, and if EF users are lucky, they will work seamlessly. If Canon wants to sell new lenses, then those adapters will be hobbled in some respect.
However, those EF users who would like to take advantage of the very latest technology in a camera with an optical viewfinder will probably find themselves out of luck in a very few years.

Anyway, this has moved pretty far afield from the topic.
My apologies.

[thibs]

Sometimes some (mostly) OT posts at first sight can shed some very interesting light on current market.

[Kunzite]

But you didn't specify Olympus... That was the original question, after all...

Of course I didn't. I hate the ongoing PentaxIsDoomed nonsense, and I won't be doing the same but changing the brand.
Even now I'm reluctant to get back at those Olympus users who regurgitated "DSLRs are dying" everywhere.
I'm happier with Pentax continuing to make the products I like.

[kwb]

Releasing two versions of the video, one in Japanese and the other mostly in Japanese with English subs except that the president addresses the viewers in English for a minute or so, is a welcome continuation of the trend in recent years where Ricoh Imaging Japan has been trying to send a coherent set of messages to all its users (not just users in Japan) by releasing two versions of outreach/promo materials.

Look at the Japanese and English version of the Pentax brand portal under Ricoh Imaging Japan web site.

• Japanese: PENTAX | ???? | RICOH IMAGING
• English: PENTAX | Brand | RICOH IMAGING

All of 5 PENTAX Lens articles (I'm sure many of you remember Ltd lens "special site"), 4 out of 7 "PENTAX features that gives more enjoyments in photo shooting" articles, "PENTAX history", "Why PENTAX" as well as 2 out of 4 contents specifically related to 100-years event are available in English. Most of these contents are perfectly in line with 5 principles, or rather, 5 principles are a nice summary of the philosophy behind these contents. Many of the talking points in the interview are straight out of these too.

One small thing about the video: They could have easily put English subs in the Japanese video and be done with that, but in addition they also took time to write a script for president Takahashi to address the viewers outside of Japan in English. Small thing, but a nice touch nevertheless.

[Serkevan]

Also, a lot of commenters all seem to want Pentax to die, as if having Pentax around impacts their personal well being... if you don't like Pentax, then don't buy it. Simple as that. It's the exact same way I don't go around preaching that Sony should die...

I just did a cursory search for the usual suspect, saw they had approximately as many comments as I post in a month here, checked a couple of them and sure enough, scratched record.


Do they get paid to grief everyone who isn't Sony?

[BryantCP]

The guys who keep on buying and changing gears need to spend a lot of money. If you're filthy rich you can chase all the new MILC editions you want. But, do you really need to keep on updating and upgrading your gears? Camera companies going into MILC are pushing people to get the latest gadgets and in the end, the produced so many that their inventory isn't moving. The real enthusiasts are the only ones in the market for ILC cameras and are not that many to support the shrinking market. People who bought into DSLRs before who aren't enthusiasts are now happy with their cellphones. Cellphones haven't just killed point and shoot cameras but also the ILC market. These guys have dumped their old DSLRs and are now into upgrading their cellphones regularly.

Maybe Pentax is on the right track. I hope.

While people are regularly upgrading their cellphones, I think the majority are upgrading for reasons other than cellphones as cameras, such as: (a) needing better battery life, (b) more memory, (c) better connectivity including 5g and (d) ability to have the newest version of IOS or Android OS. Most people buy cellphones because they are phones, not because they are cameras. Many of the people who are happy with cellphones as cameras would in years past would have been happy with Kodak Instamatics or Pocket Instamatics.

[Wheatfield]

I just did a cursory search for the usual suspect, saw they had approximately as many comments as I post in a month here, checked a couple of them and sure enough, scratched record.


Do they get paid to grief everyone who isn't Sony?

I'm quite certain that is the case. I'm of the opinion that Sony has a paid troll farm that haunts various internet forums trashing brands that are not Sony while at the same time pimping Sony as much as possible. Frankly, I think they go after Pentax simply because as a small player, they are an easy target. I believe they work on the theory that Pentax isn't a big player, therefore it must not be good, and the tribal nature of forums in general means that piling on will occur, and the small user base makes people who call them out look like shrill whiners and fan people.
Whoever came up with the moniker "social media" got it exactly backwards. The media is anything but social.