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07-20-2020, 01:51 AM   #286
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Woo, so then next iterations if the Q will get pentaprism viewfinders. Nice!
😉

07-20-2020, 02:42 AM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Wait, Sony? Really? With either uncompressed RAW or lossy compression?

Pentax has the one RAW compression option which is actually useful, that is lossless compression.
Right. I thought Pentax RAWs were compressed. I remember that this was a big deal around the time the K20 was out -- the PEF files were quite a bit smaller than the DNG files due to Pentax using some compression for the PEF files. But with subsequent cameras they compressed both file formats.
07-20-2020, 02:57 AM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Right. I thought Pentax RAWs were compressed. I remember that this was a big deal around the time the K20 was out -- the PEF files were quite a bit smaller than the DNG files due to Pentax using some compression for the PEF files. But with subsequent cameras they compressed both file formats.
Yes, but it was always lossless compression.
07-20-2020, 03:50 AM - 1 Like   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Pentax has the one RAW compression option which is actually useful, that is lossless compression.
Some Nikon RAW options let you tune RAW file size and hence buffer throughput by choosing between saving as 12-bit or 14-bit RAW, as well as choosing different RAW compression options like Compressed, Lossless Compressed and Uncompressed. Handy for sports/event shooting while doing 36MP (if you still want/need to shoot RAWs).

A useful software tweak.

07-20-2020, 03:56 AM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Compute is cheap, storage is cheap. Raw detail is forever
Cheap is relative. Computing and storage compete for the same funds I could be spending on Pentax cameras and lenses, right? Pentax doesn't make desktop computers. On the other hand, for those who shoot a lot of frames and will reproduce most of them in smaller digital formats, RAW detail may be forever but it can also be unnecessary for most shooting. I went back to lower-res sensors intentionally, but these aging cameras won't last forever. It's a good thing when we have features that support different people's different use cases!
07-20-2020, 04:04 AM - 3 Likes   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Some Nikon RAW options let you tune RAW file size and hence buffer throughput by choosing between saving as 12-bit or 14-bit RAW, as well as choosing different RAW compression options like Compressed, Lossless Compressed and Uncompressed. Handy for sports/event shooting while doing 36MP (if you still want/need to shoot RAWs).

A useful software tweak.
Well, Nikon and not Sony.
Lossy compression is IMO much worse than whatever people are imagining the accelerator unit does.
Uncompressed RAWs don't bring any advantage - only much increased sizes.
Perhaps 12 bit RAW, and/or sRAW...
07-20-2020, 04:45 AM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Uncompressed RAWs don't bring any advantage - only much increased sizes.
And the small caveat that the CPU need to compress the RAW before sending it to storage. Obvious I know but I'm not sure usual SOCs used by Pentax until now have a dedicated unit for this, getting in the way of storage speed and/or camera operations while compressing.

07-20-2020, 05:10 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Cheap is relative. Computing and storage compete for the same funds I could be spending on Pentax cameras and lenses, right? Pentax doesn't make desktop computers. On the other hand, for those who shoot a lot of frames and will reproduce most of them in smaller digital formats, RAW detail may be forever but it can also be unnecessary for most shooting. I went back to lower-res sensors intentionally, but these aging cameras won't last forever. It's a good thing when we have features that support different people's different use cases!
Every hobby costs money and a good part of that is supporting systems - be it compute, storage, paper, ink, online storage. I don't understand the rationale for decreasing quality - if I create an image on my K-1 and whatever lens I have mounted, I want everything, every single colour bit, every tone graduation. I don't care that right here and now I can't easily display it in its full glory on paper, or that if I share it with family and friends they can't make out the tiny minutiae, that technology will reach the masses eventually.
I probably have a different use case from you but I see photography as capturing a moment, it is also an archival format and I want to save and protect as much detail as I can now so when my memory starts to blur or I pass my saved moments to the next generation they have the maximum amount of detail.
You can argue that I can save 50% storage and only lose 10% fidelity, I'd argue that that is 10% you'll never be able to recover and its short sighted saving. That 10% can be the difference in someone's eyes reflecting warmth and happiness or a pair of eyes.
I could go into numbers and figures about relative cost of compute & storage but it's a waste of time. I will say my first PC that I built myself in 91 cost me 2000 pounds which I saved myself working in a factory over a summer, back breaking work. 4MB of memory cost 200 pounds. A 2GB hard drive cost 400 pounds, a CD Rom drive cost 400 pounds. I see you're based in the states, you have the luxury of some of the most competitive pricing for any consumer facing product world wide. I'm based in the EU, if I say its cheap, it's is for sure cheaper for you.
S!
07-20-2020, 06:37 AM - 1 Like   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Every hobby costs money and a good part of that is supporting systems - be it compute, storage, paper, ink, online storage. I don't understand the rationale for decreasing quality - if I create an image on my K-1 and whatever lens I have mounted, I want everything, every single colour bit, every tone graduation. I don't care that right here and now I can't easily display it in its full glory on paper, or that if I share it with family and friends they can't make out the tiny minutiae, that technology will reach the masses eventually.
You do a good job of presenting your preference for even more pixels, but I’m not buying. 24 is enough for me. At 72, I expect that my KP is the last camera I will get, although I might think a long time about a 24MP “FF” if Pentax were to make one of them - that provides a sufficient rendition for me.
07-20-2020, 06:54 AM - 2 Likes   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
At 72, I expect that my KP is the last camera I will get, although I might think a long time about a 24MP “FF” if Pentax were to make one of them - that provides a sufficient rendition for me.
I'll be 74 in a couple of months, and I'm darn tooting that my K-1 and K-3 II won't be the last cameras for me!
07-20-2020, 08:02 AM - 2 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Every hobby costs money and a good part of that is supporting systems - be it compute, storage, paper, ink, online storage. I don't understand the rationale for decreasing quality - if I create an image on my K-1 and whatever lens I have mounted, I want everything, every single colour bit, every tone graduation. I don't care that right here and now I can't easily display it in its full glory on paper, or that if I share it with family and friends they can't make out the tiny minutiae, that technology will reach the masses eventually.
I probably have a different use case from you but I see photography as capturing a moment, it is also an archival format and I want to save and protect as much detail as I can now so when my memory starts to blur or I pass my saved moments to the next generation they have the maximum amount of detail.
You can argue that I can save 50% storage and only lose 10% fidelity, I'd argue that that is 10% you'll never be able to recover and its short sighted saving. That 10% can be the difference in someone's eyes reflecting warmth and happiness or a pair of eyes.
I could go into numbers and figures about relative cost of compute & storage but it's a waste of time. I will say my first PC that I built myself in 91 cost me 2000 pounds which I saved myself working in a factory over a summer, back breaking work. 4MB of memory cost 200 pounds. A 2GB hard drive cost 400 pounds, a CD Rom drive cost 400 pounds. I see you're based in the states, you have the luxury of some of the most competitive pricing for any consumer facing product world wide. I'm based in the EU, if I say its cheap, it's is for sure cheaper for you.
S!
Thanks for sharing so much about how the subject relates to your personal feelings and experience. Hopefully future cameras will innovate features that allow them to serve your preferences and my preferences just as well, since we both like and use Pentax cameras, even though we have different goals and purposes and different experiences that result.

I've never understood why, when someone (or multiple people) in camera forum discussions share "this is a feature that would be helpful for me," there's always someone to say "you're wrong, because it doesn't matter to me."

(also, goods may be cheaper in the states, especially for folks at one end of our intense economic disparity curve, but generally outside the major urban areas depressed wages, high rents and the lack of social safety nets and extreme cost-spirals associated with simple things like minor health issues makes a lot of us very conservative about our spending, even if we're popularly depicted as engaged in an orgy of frivolous consumption. My camera usage is mostly part of my work, rather than a hobby, which is mostly in the conventionally-underfunded nonprofit sector but at least it's work that's still available right now! Thousands of frames per month that provide valuable ecological data but will never, ever be printed or viewed larger than screen size. As far as churning through a factory job to save up some money, I've been there too, but we went from 12 regional factories to just one in the last decade, and then coronavirus hit. I'll stick with my current work and its economic compromises)
07-20-2020, 09:30 AM - 2 Likes   #297
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PetaPixel article - "Why Pentax is Making the Right Call in Sticking with DSLRs"

Just FYI to share a recent nice article ...

Why Pentax is Making the Right Call in Sticking with DSLRs

And for what it's worth, I would agree with the article that a modern or "new generation" Pentax film camera would be lots of fun.

(re-post from DSLR thread)

Last edited by Jean Poitiers; 07-20-2020 at 09:48 AM.
07-20-2020, 09:49 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I'll be 74 in a couple of months, and I'm darn tooting that my K-1 and K-3 II won't be the last cameras for me!
A camera that lasts less than 3-1/2 years for me get listed as a "failure"; I don't expect my KP to deserve that designation, and I hope it will last at least five years. I don't know that I will be in the market past 75.
07-20-2020, 10:22 AM   #299
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What failure are you talking about ?
07-20-2020, 10:34 AM - 2 Likes   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
At 72, I expect that my KP is the last camera I will get
Unlike you, evidently, I have no plans to leave the universe in the foreseeable future, so I may go and buy another body if I feel it will yield more keepers.
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