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07-25-2020, 07:55 AM - 1 Like   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
.
Then I have to wonder, if it is that critical, what they did before that feature existed.
Well, we are here at the Pentaxforums where we are *very* vocal about the OVF when a pentaprism is a completely superfluous addition to a camera.

---------- Post added 07-25-20 at 07:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
You've never discovered something and from then on didn't want to go without that something?

There's been a number of times over the course of my life where I've been enriched by someone or something where I thought (beforehand) everything was good, but they made it so much better that I wouldn't want to go back.
Printing books is clearly nonsensical, people were getting by with handwriting for centuries. Centuries, I tell you! On parchment!

I still have to see one argument against having a movable screen when
A) the KP is slimmer than the K-5/3. Worst case scenario, adding a tilt screen to the K-New would remove the notch and the left side would be thicker... and now flush with the right side that already has to be thicker regardless of flippiness .
B) the mechanism for a tilt screen like the aforementioned's KP costs basically nothing. It's literally a metal frame with a hinge, a couple extra rubber seals and a slightly longer cable.


Last edited by Serkevan; 07-25-2020 at 08:01 AM.
07-25-2020, 08:12 AM - 2 Likes   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Well, we are here at the Pentaxforums where we are *very* vocal about the OVF when a pentaprism is a completely superfluous addition to a camera.

---------- Post added 07-25-20 at 07:57 AM ----------



Printing books is clearly nonsensical, people were getting by with handwriting for centuries. Centuries, I tell you! On parchment!

I still have to see one argument against having a movable screen when
A) the KP is slimmer than the K-5/3. Worst case scenario, adding a tilt screen to the K-New would remove the notch and the left side would be thicker... and now flush with the right side that already has to be thicker regardless of flippiness .
B) the mechanism for a tilt screen like the aforementioned's KP costs basically nothing. It's literally a metal frame with a hinge, a couple extra rubber seals and a slightly longer cable.
The K-new has a new viewfinder. It shows a larger image than previous ones. The eye relief still has to be kept, to allow a good view of the whole image with auxiliary data in it. The fixed screen is slimmer than previous ones. The ocular has some mm to be in front (or behind, as you want to see) of the screen to enable that. Any construction of a movable screen would not allow that.
These are all known data points by now. The last sentence is my interpretation. You may take it as a possible argument against a movable screen, or not.
07-25-2020, 08:48 AM - 1 Like   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The issue for me is, there is a distinct technical advantage to doing macro with APS-c. More pixels squeezed into a smaller space for more real world magninifaction.

Yet I've almost stopped using my K-3 in favour of my K-1 based on the fact it's so much easier to do low level images with he K-1 and the flipped up screen. I can't get up and down off the ground as easily as I used to, and I've grown to be totally not OK with rolling around in the mud for low angle shots. In essence, the images would be better taken with the K-3, but I use the K-1.



But, not everyone (my wife included) even understands why I even take these images (she's like "what another mushroom?" Usually followed by something blasphemous and possibly obscene., so it doesn't surprise me that others might not understand the issue.
I like the mushroom Norm!
07-25-2020, 09:02 AM - 1 Like   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
You've never discovered something and from then on didn't want to go without that something?
Absolutely I have. I can't think of anything though that was a part of a whole that was so wonderful that I'd forego the the whole if it had everything else I wanted. Climate control in a vehicle is wonderful. WiFi is handy too. My last truck had both; my current has neither.
I don't see a downside to a tilty screen. What I said was that I don't understand passing over something for lacking a single feature if that feature isn't critical to your usage.

07-25-2020, 09:05 AM - 2 Likes   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
They went about their lives not knowing how wonderful things could be. For the first several million years of human existence we did without electricity, reasonably modern medical care, literacy, industrial production, air conditioning, basic human rights and countless other things that are pretty crucial to life in 2020. It's as reasonable to say you wouldn't want a camera without a flippy screen as anything else, especially since there are dozens of cameras on the market with such a thing, including multiple Pentaxes. If basic utility is the driving factor here we could all make do with 1850s era photography, or maybe no photography at all.


KP or K-1 if a flippy screen is such a high priority.
07-25-2020, 09:19 AM - 1 Like   #426
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Cameras and flippy screens is like Office Space and the stapler! We all know in 10 yrs flip screens are going to be a joke - if a camera doesn't have a wifi image sent to your contact lens or a heads-up-display it'll be considered garbage.
07-25-2020, 09:42 AM - 1 Like   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote


KP or K-1 if a flippy screen is such a high priority.
Or even if you still own a 645/N/NII/D ...

07-25-2020, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #428
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To flip or not to flip

...that is the question...

07-25-2020, 11:15 AM - 2 Likes   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I find it really strange that anyone would pass over any product solely due to the omission of a single feature unless it was one that was critical to their particular needs.
Then I have to wonder, if it is that critical, what they did before that feature existed.
To get the shots I get with the articulating screen I would lay down on the ground. Now I don't.

Many camera features make it easy to take shots that weren't possible or very difficult without the feature.

So I don't accept the premise of your question.
07-25-2020, 11:26 AM - 2 Likes   #430
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
To get the shots I get with the articulating screen I would lay down on the ground. Now I don't.
Presumably, you are currently taking these low-level shots either sitting in a chair or crouching near the ground.
Now imagine if the camera has a great connection with your smartphone.
Place your smartphone on your lap, or on your knee as you crouch.
and voila - very similar experience as using an articulating screen
maybe even better, as you can now position your screen to where you want it and it won't move in relation to the camera's movements as you fine-tune the focus..

remember, Pentax is rooting down in the OVF niche.
asking for an articulating screen so you can use contrast-detect Live View focusing seems rather counter their recent 5 point statement...
by implementing the feature with a deep smartphone connectivity provides what you are asking for.
The only compromise is it's not attached to your camera (which adds weight and cost anyway).
07-25-2020, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #431
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
Now imagine if the camera has a great connection with your smartphone.
Place your smartphone on your lap, or on your knee as you crouch.
and voila - very similar experience as using an articulating screen
maybe even better, as you can now position your screen to where you want it and it won't move in relation to the camera's movements as you fine-tune the focus..
I've been thinking the same thing. I use a K-3 II, which is not supported by Ricoh's Image Sync app. However, recent cameras are supported, so I would expect the new APS-C camera to also be compatible.

I would think that this 'remote' approach offers flexibility and several benefits, assuming Image Sync works well without serious glitches. The smartphone could be handled as you suggest, or it could be attached to a low-cost, lightweight holder that mounts on the camera's flash mount (these are readily available for $10-25).

With this approach, the camera can be kept as svelte as possible without a moveable screen. In my case, I would use the remote screen for perhaps less than 1% of my shots, so it's a good approach I think. I could even think of situations in which I would use my iPad, if it's compatible.

Yeah, I like this idea.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 07-25-2020 at 11:49 AM.
07-25-2020, 11:43 AM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
Presumably, you are currently taking these low-level shots either sitting in a chair or crouching near the ground.
Now imagine if the camera has a great connection with your smartphone.
Place your smartphone on your lap, or on your knee as you crouch.
and voila - very similar experience as using an articulating screen
maybe even better, as you can now position your screen to where you want it and it won't move in relation to the camera's movements as you fine-tune the focus..

remember, Pentax is rooting down in the OVF niche.
asking for an articulating screen so you can use contrast-detect Live View focusing seems rather counter their recent 5 point statement...
by implementing the feature with a deep smartphone connectivity provides what you are asking for.
The only compromise is it's not attached to your camera (which adds weight and cost anyway).
IF Pentax can implement a really great wifi software, this would work! I use contrast-detect with manual lenses and the flippy screen is awesome not just for low level shots and those taken from above your head, but also for astro, where the camera may be pointed up at a pretty good inclination for long periods of time. Unfortunately, Pentax's previous software has been hideous and FAR behind the other manufacturers.

Give me a new video showing the K-New with a flippy screen (I love the screen on my K1) OR a video showing the amazing new, and vastly improved, smartphone app. And how about wifi tethering to PC?!?
07-25-2020, 11:45 AM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Absolutely I have. I can't think of anything though that was a part of a whole that was so wonderful that I'd forego the the whole if it had everything else I wanted. Climate control in a vehicle is wonderful. WiFi is handy too. My last truck had both; my current has neither.
I don't see a downside to a tilty screen. What I said was that I don't understand passing over something for lacking a single feature if that feature isn't critical to your usage.

Is that really what you're getting at... this is all about the tilt screen or not?


I think the car analogy doesn't fit here. Because the features of the car don't open new abilities of operating the car. New features on a camera, however, can open new abilities in taking different types of photography.

I don't think anyone is passing over the K-new because it doesn't lack a tilt screen unless they intend on, to some measure, using the tilt screen. or no?

Last edited by mee; 07-25-2020 at 11:58 AM.
07-25-2020, 11:57 AM - 1 Like   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
So I don't accept the premise of your question.
That's okay, I didn't ask a question.
07-25-2020, 12:23 PM - 1 Like   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oktyabr Quote
Unfortunately, Pentax's previous software has been hideous and FAR behind the other manufacturers.
This is exactly it - I'm thinking Ricoh is going to pump their Theta tech into the Pentax K-New.
I'm using Ricoh's Theta Z1 with it's basic app and it's much, much slicker than what I've seen from the performance between my K-S2 wifi and Image Sync app.

---------- Post added 07-25-20 at 01:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
low-cost, lightweight holder
I didn't even think of attaching it to the hot shoe - that would be way better!
Could be attached to hot shoe for low shots, or attached to the tripod mount for over-head shots! - perfect!
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