Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-04-2020, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #196
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jerryleejr's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: TN
Posts: 767
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I wish I had your faith that wouldn;t just be the pretext they chose - the truth is that if a camera of the currently favoured brand lacked a flip screen it would not be a deal breaker - people who bought Pentax because it was cool left long ago, and a feature that everyone else has won't be what lures them back or lures others to the brand. I don't have a flip screen on my K-3 and I don't think it's ever stopped me getting the picture I want, just like the lack of live view on the K10D didn't and the lack of a rear LCD on my Z1, SFXn, LX and ME super (or 67 or 67ii) didn't. I like and use the flip screen on the K-1, but it's not my camera of choice for all instances. The days of one camera is best for everything are gone.
I came to Pentax because it was the system in use at the time I started. My dad was heavily invested in the lenses so naturally I started on a K1000 and worked my way thru a few film bodies. In the beginning of digital Pentax had nothing so I dabbled with other systems. Once Pentax had established a digital presence I sold my other gear and continued with Pentax. For me the brand does what I need and probably depending on how you look at it saved a lot of money and frustration chasing the latest and greatest. And I agree there’s not a do it all camera and sadly I’m curious what the future holds for photography in general. When the phones and tablets supersede the technology at a fraction of the price, the “instant gratification” generation isn’t gonna care how they got that selfie. But I digress you may not return to your regularly scheduled programming....

JJ

09-04-2020, 02:57 PM   #197
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,949
Meaning of "Flagship"

QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
My point is that "flagship" makes no sense as it only means "most advanced" or something like that. Thing is that the GRIII is the most advanced snapshot camera and the K-1 the most advanced field camera. The K-1 sucks for the GR use case. The knew appear to be again a different camera not great for those with GR or K-1 requirements.
In my opinion, your point is incorrect.
"Flagship" implies more than 'best' - it implies a certain level of attainment.
The Griii is not viewed as a 'snapshot' camera - users were incensed when I pointed out how vendors classify it, putting it in classes that include WG and similar cameras.
The manufacturer selects a "class" for the camera, and "flagship" status is based on that class identification - although others may not agree with how you classify it.

Ricoh declares the GRiii to be of class 'Street Camera' - a class not commonly recognized, but explains why it has neither viewfinder nor a zoom lens.
The K-1 is of the class 'FF DSLR', that is clear.
The new camera will be of the class 'APS-C DSLR'.

Part of the problem with the KP was that some tried to force it into the "Flagship" position, but it lacked certain things, such as top deck LCD and battery life that others expected of that position.
09-04-2020, 03:11 PM   #198
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,150
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The Griii is not viewed as a 'snapshot' camera....

Ricoh declares the GRiii to be of class 'Street Camera' - a class not commonly recognized, but explains why it has neither viewfinder nor a zoom lens.
I'm sorry but you have this backwards. Ricoh insists on calling it a snapshot camera. Some, who don't know the history and theory of Japanese "street" photography, might resent the label. That would be because they don't know better.
09-04-2020, 03:17 PM   #199
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,949
QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
I'm sorry but you have this backwards. Ricoh insists on calling it a snapshot camera. Some, who don't know the history and theory of Japanese "street" photography, might resent the label. That would be because they don't know better.
I had many discussions with others here when the GRiii first came out - there was nothing in the Ricoh representation that they objected to - it was how others reacted that they objected to,
but my disagreement with you was what the word "Flagship" implies.


Last edited by reh321; 09-04-2020 at 03:24 PM.
09-04-2020, 03:23 PM - 1 Like   #200
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
believe focusing is a team effort - the smarts are in the body.
AF is something we haven't discussed as much as we have flippy.

K-new AF changes will probably mean SAFOX 13 is coming, but exactly what that will look like is still a secret.


KP was SAFOX 11: 27 point (25 cross type focus points in the center), K-1 is SAFOX 12: 33 point (25 cross type focus points in the center). Probably SAFOX 13 will have more focus points, and some revision to the AF assembly to fit within the compact K-new body.

Plus we should expect some software changes to make AF-C more confident and predictive, maybe even do eye/face recognition in SAFOX13 if there was some ability to do so due (perhaps) to further improvements in the resolution of the metering sensor.

Last edited by rawr; 09-04-2020 at 03:29 PM.
09-04-2020, 06:23 PM - 1 Like   #201
dbs
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Clare Valley S A
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,716
Hi

Is SAFOX13 used in the GR iii ?
The GR iii does eye / face recog ,wifi, Ricohs app tethering so the tech is 'inhouse' and will probably be in K new.
People seem to forget it iis Ricoh / Pentax and tech can and will be used in either or when seemed fit.

Dave
09-04-2020, 06:37 PM   #202
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Kobie's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bowmanville
Photos: Albums
Posts: 805
QuoteOriginally posted by dbs Quote
Hi

Is SAFOX13 used in the GR iii ?
The GR iii does eye / face recog.

Dave
Hmmm, was just on the GR III site and there's no mention of eye detect AF. The usual face detect is mentioned though.
Pretty sure it's no different than what's already available in live view on Pentax DSLR's. Maybe the GR III tracks better?
Where did you see that it does eye detect AF?

09-04-2020, 06:48 PM   #203
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
QuoteOriginally posted by dbs Quote
Is SAFOX13 used in the GR iii ?
Interesting possibility. Even though they are very different cameras, it's not impossible that K-new may have some GR III tech inside.

GR III AF is:
"Hybrid AF (Image plane phase-matching and Contrast detection)"

Hybrid AF with the combination of image plane phase-matching and contrast-detection AF

The AF system is a hybrid of image plane phase-matching and contrast detection. The advantages of image plane phase-matching AF high-speed focusing and contrast-detection AF focusing precision are combined. The common contrast-detection AF issue of searching for focus peaks has been reduced for quick shooting performance required on a snapshot camera.


GR III Features

so the GR III has on-sensor phase detection elements that work alongside software based contrast detection algorithms.

Still sounds like AF is all coming off the imaging sensor, rather than a specific AF assembly within the mirror box, like previous SAFOX.

But GR III certainly opens up some chance that both PDAF and CDAF could perhaps be at work on the K-new during viewfinder focussing. Opens up a lot of possibilities.
09-04-2020, 06:51 PM - 1 Like   #204
Pentaxian
Paul the Sunman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,459
QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
So there's a Bubblegum Pink version? Neat.
Yes, but it gets soft and gooey in hot weather.
09-04-2020, 07:07 PM   #205
dbs
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Clare Valley S A
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,716
QuoteOriginally posted by Kobie Quote
Hmmm, was just on the GR III site and there's no mention of eye detect AF. The usual face detect is mentioned though.
Pretty sure it's no different than what's already available in live view on Pentax DSLR's. Maybe the GR III tracks better?
Where did you see that it does eye detect AF?
Hi
I just assumed they were the same.

Face detect and the GR iii , does track fast.
I have a K5 II and never used live view.

Dave
09-04-2020, 08:54 PM   #206
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
The important thing - what will be the resolution of LCD - old 1.037 or 1.2 MP or much better - 1 840 000, 1 620 000, 2 100 000 or 2 359 000 ???
09-04-2020, 09:41 PM - 5 Likes   #207
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,573
QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Well, it will have a fixed screen :-

Product Stories of New APS-C Vol.3?Wakashiro? | PENTAX official

The primary reason given is that it allows the body to be thinner and lighter. A secondary reason, one more of principle, is that Pentax majors on optical viewfinders so the type of screen is of lesser importance. These reasons are fair enough.

But other reasons are given which are more questionable. One is that it allows a larger screen, which contradicts the idea that the screen is of lesser importance. Another is that it allows a projecting eyepiece, but they could have done that anyway, and does that not add to the overall body thickness? Another is that it allows the camera body to be made "sturdy", but there are many ways to make something stronger and reducing the body depth is not the first one that springs to mind.

Moreover, my old Pentax LX also majored on its optical viewfinder because that is all it had, but in its case you could get a waist-level finder, and I did, and I use it. I doubt the K-new will offer one.

I won't be getting a K-new but my concern is that Pentax's future is partly riding on it, and the "influencers" like DPReview, Tony Northrop, Kai W, etc are going to crucify the K-new for not having even a tilt screen. There is going to be a bloodbath. You might not attach much weight to what those guys say, and I don't, but unfortunately many other people out there do listen to them and lap up (and repeat) what they say.
We'll if Pentax had to listen to those idiots they'd be dead a long time ago.
09-04-2020, 09:42 PM - 1 Like   #208
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
what will be the resolution of LCD - old 1.037
The least interesting specification of the new camera, in my view.

K-1 /GR III 1037k dots will be OK. More important will be whether the screen is usable in sunlight and has a wide viewing angle.
09-04-2020, 10:21 PM   #209
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
The least interesting specification of the new camera, in my view.

K-1 /GR III 1037k dots will be OK. More important will be whether the screen is usable in sunlight and has a wide viewing angle.
No doubt, but 1.03 is very close to much older 0.92 - almost the same in my K-5IIs...It's just OK.
09-04-2020, 10:26 PM   #210
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,382
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
We'll if Pentax had to listen to those idiots they'd be dead a long time ago.
It's debatable conclusion...
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
angle, aps-c, battery, camera, crop, design, development series, flagship, grip, jazz, k-new, latex, lcd, opera, ovf, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, photos, post, product stories, ricoh, screen, size, thickness, tilt, viewfinder
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Admit Your Worst Camera Abuse - Stories and Pics Snapppy General Photography 80 05-24-2021 06:18 AM
IQ of FF vs APS-C primes on APS-C bodies lightbox Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 26 11-10-2016 06:50 PM
When is an APS-C lens not really an APS-C? lightbox Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 03-27-2015 07:45 PM
Weekly Challenge #86: Stories... Winners d.bradley Weekly Photo Challenges 12 02-01-2009 11:48 AM
KX mishap, and other horror stories Stevopedia Photographic Technique 11 11-27-2008 07:47 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:08 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top