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09-06-2020, 10:58 AM - 1 Like   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by SunnyG. Quote
See the fuji x pro series for example. On one of the models they didn't put a flip screen.What happened? People objected, less products sold. The next model had a flip screen.
Please correct me if my memory is faulty here -- I thought that the first X-Pro1 (2012) had a fixed screen, but it sold fairly well as the first X-Pro model and users generally enjoyed it. The X-Pro2 had a moveable screen. The X-Pro3 integrated a 'hidden' moveable screen that caught folks by surprise.

I have no idea of the relative sales of the various models.

- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 09-06-2020 at 12:28 PM.
09-06-2020, 11:10 AM - 1 Like   #272
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I don't understand all the hate about the lack of a flippy screen.

Why not just buy a K-1 instead of asking for an APSC to be like the K1 if folks don't mind the difference in size?

Pentax hasn't put out a camera for the "I like it smaller w/ pro features" crowd for a loooong time so I'm really glad they are keeping size / weight in mind when making the tradeoffs. (Lets be honest, I'd love a flipscreen too if they could keep the other tradeoffs in check)

APSC needs to be materially smaller to differentiate it from FF.
09-06-2020, 11:29 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
This is pure B.S. so please refrain for offering your opinion as if it were gospel because its not. As for the price what the heck do you know that others don't? You just pushed the selling price up to 2500 Euros without even knowing........again pure B.S. So spare us your negativity.

Oh this is written with all due respect.
Sorry. But, that is probably the price locally here. All HD Pentax pro zooms are 500-1000€ more expensive than elsewhere. It has been so since K-1 made its debut. K-1 MK2 is still hovering at 2k€ barrier and that is a sale price.

K-1 MK2 with Samyang 35/1.4 cost me about 3000€ in 2018. I expect no less than 2500€ for K-New if it is the AF pocket rocket people believe it to be.
09-06-2020, 11:40 AM - 3 Likes   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by mx23 Quote
I don't understand all the hate about the lack of a flippy screen.

Why not just buy a K-1 instead of asking for an APSC to be like the K1 if folks don't mind the difference in size?

Pentax hasn't put out a camera for the "I like it smaller w/ pro features" crowd for a loooong time so I'm really glad they are keeping size / weight in mind when making the tradeoffs. (Lets be honest, I'd love a flipscreen too if they could keep the other tradeoffs in check)

APSC needs to be materially smaller to differentiate it from FF.
When a manufacture puts out a new product - I don't think there is any dispute in that they would like to sell as many of the new model as they possibly can. Because we are seeing lots of negative sentiments here on our forum, whether it is legit or not, the concern seems to be real and should not be ignored. In my view the concern was real enough that they put out a warning shot to address it (not sure if that is the case, of course). I am just kind of perplexed that by adding the flippy they really don't lose much other than few millimeters in thickness, which I argue that it is barely noticeable. I think if you weigh between the negative sentiments that may arise by having a flippy (I am sure there will be ) and or not having a flippy, me thinks that you may capture more of the potential market by having it. Would it kill them to have it? My guess is no - but there may be other technical reasons that none of us are privy to that makes it not such a good decision to have it. I am a flippy proponent for sure and I am leaning towards not buying this model because I am so very happy with K-1 and I am fine with the size of it. But I would consider buying it if did have a flippy. I understand the argument that the Knew is catered to a certain style of photography and that is just fine. But in this shrinking market it gets me worried a bit. You say why not just buy a K-1 and you are correct, but there are many who have K-1 who are used to having a flippy that just may buy Knew if it had one as well. It's a calculated move (or risk) that they are taking, and I really hope it does not backfire on them. I genuinely do want them to be successful with this new camera even if I don't plan to buy it.

09-06-2020, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
I have that [lens with a sensor at the back controlled by smartphone]. It is called Olypus Air A01 AIR A01 | Olympus
Exactly!
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Stating your wishes and expectations does not control Pentax.None of you is God - speaking your hopes does not make the hopes materialize.
True, but we are enjoying ourselves here
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I measured my K-5IIs and asked my friend with K-3II - the same 62 mm.
The diagram that has been posted a couple of times showing a K-New as 10mm less depth than a K-1 is misleading. I have just measured my K-1 and the flipping mechanism takes up 6mm, so the K-New would have a body depth of 68mm if it had the same mechanism as a K-1. A simple single hinged screen would take significantly less than that. I guess there are other reasons for the K-1 being a whole 10mm thicker.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'm pretty sure that 1 in 5000 shots is pretty accurate for when flippy screen comes handy
Irrelevant statistic. What matters is not the proportion of times it is used, but the proportion of people who want one, or believe they do. The point is that the K-New will fail to attract many of the latter, who are significantly more than 1 in 5000 of potential buyers. I'm pretty sure that more than 1 in 5000 of the posters here have expressed disappointment in this. I've been doing a lot of copying lately (eg Pentax Flash Brochure from 1985 - PentaxForums.com ) and I am using a flip screen in doing so; just one case I know.
QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
many people wear glasses and I very much would appreciate to have an eyepiece that stands out more at the back
They could make the eyepiece stand out as much as they want, it is just a matter of the focal length of the eyepiece lens.

I have worked in engineering design offices and this is how it works. Some senior director, who may not even be on the engineering side, gets a bee in his bonnet about something he wants*, or does not want, in the design. So the junior engineers have to abide by that even though they don't agree. Then someone has to make up a cock-and-bull story to "justify" the decision to go that way; the originating director does not do that because he didn't really have have a good reason in the first place and regards that as someone elses job. I can see that type of sub-plot written all over the Pentax press releases on this.

* A board member's wife in one case, I kid you not.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 09-06-2020 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Removed masked profanities.
09-06-2020, 12:17 PM - 1 Like   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Sorry. But, that is probably the price locally here. All HD Pentax pro zooms are 500-1000€ more expensive than elsewhere. It has been so since K-1 made its debut. K-1 MK2 is still hovering at 2k€ barrier and that is a sale price.

K-1 MK2 with Samyang 35/1.4 cost me about 3000€ in 2018. I expect no less than 2500€ for K-New if it is the AF pocket rocket people believe it to be.
Here you go Pentax K-1 Mark II DSLR Camera (Body Only) 15994 B&H Photo Video this is the K-1 MK2 current price at B&H where I bought my last Pentax DSLR and the price there is far from the price you say is the sale price in your region of the world. BTW, the K-1 MK2 price at introduction was $1999. I plan to buy the k-New body and possibly the battery grip and not a whole bevy of lens along with the camera body. You have my sympathy if you have to pay that for for a K-1 Mk2 (blame your revenue hungry governments for that).

The introductory price of the K-1 in 2016 was $1799 and it eventually went up to around $2000 for the body alone. That information came from the well respected by a few DPR. Oh and BTW, here is a quote regarding the K-1 by DPR and it will still be valid today for the K-New.

"Core competence
Overall, though, it's not the clever use of the sensor that most stands out about the K-1, it's Ricoh's obvious focus on the core photographic capabilities. There's a reason we chose to list the viewfinder size so far up the list of specifications - it's because we think it's something users coming from existing Pentax cameras will most appreciate. Sure, there are multiple exposure modes and time lapse options, but the things that most jumped out are the high resolution sensor, the well positioned dials, the large viewfinder and image stabilization - the core things that help you to get better images. Speaking of core things: some may bemoan the omission of a dedicated AF point control, though the four way controller can be re-purposed for this."
09-06-2020, 12:44 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
True, but we are enjoying ourselves here
But this results in depressed sales if our hopes drive our actual behavior.
In my case, the KP so exceeded what I had hoped for, that I was happy to purchase one, and I expect it to provide enjoyment for years to come.
09-06-2020, 01:32 PM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
I had in mind GEO tagging on the first place. And thanks JPT for experimenting with GRIII and confirming my guess. I never used Astrotracer but I assume that making mechanical adapter holding phone and camera together would be not a problem. (Anyway Astrotracing requires tripod, right? ) Software can take care about the rest.
In the case of geotagging this is indeed a non-issue.
As for astrotracer, I still think calibration would be an issue.
And nobody will produce a holder for a phone for us, 3 and a half Pentax users (this is sarcasm but I'm sure everyone will get it).

09-06-2020, 01:34 PM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Please correct me if my memory is faulty here -- I thought that the first X-Pro1 (2012) had a fixed screen, but it sold fairly well as the first X-Pro model and users generally enjoyed it. The X-Pro2 had a moveable screen. The X-Pro3 integrated a 'hidden' moveable screen that caught folks by surprise.

I have no idea of the relative sales of the various models.

- Craig
I would say the X-Pro3's "hidden" screen is a worse solution than a fixed one. Although better than "Yashica"'s no LCD, buy settings cartridges

Last edited by Kunzite; 09-06-2020 at 01:41 PM.
09-06-2020, 01:40 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
The diagram that has been posted a couple of times showing a K-New as 10mm less depth than a K-1 is misleading. I have just measured my K-1 and the flipping mechanism takes up 6mm, so the K-New would have a body depth of 68mm if it had the same mechanism as a K-1. A simple single hinged screen would take significantly less than that. I guess there are other reasons for the K-1 being a whole 10mm thicker.
Only if you want to see it as misleading.
They're also mentioning - and you can see it in the diagram - "optimizing the circuit board layout and downsizing the LCD components", so the difference is not entirely due to the articulated mechanism. Although I don't think they could've used the same kind of tighter integration with an articulated LCD. Perhaps, 7-8mm added?

You can also see, the now 3.2mm protruding eyepiece would be 3-5mm behind the back LCD. That would be bad, and they'd have to lengthen the eyepiece's optics.
09-06-2020, 02:09 PM - 1 Like   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Exactly!

True, but we are enjoying ourselves here

The diagram that has been posted a couple of times showing a K-New as 10mm less depth than a K-1 is misleading. I have just measured my K-1 and the flipping mechanism takes up 6mm, so the K-New would have a body depth of 68mm if it had the same mechanism as a K-1. A simple single hinged screen would take significantly less than that. I guess there are other reasons for the K-1 being a whole 10mm thicker.

Irrelevant statistic. What matters is not the proportion of times it is used, but the proportion of people who want one, or believe they do. The point is that the K-New will fail to attract many of the latter, who are significantly more than 1 in 5000 of potential buyers. I'm pretty sure that more than 1 in 5000 of the posters here have expressed disappointment in this. I've been doing a lot of copying lately (eg Pentax Flash Brochure from 1985 - PentaxForums.com ) and I am using a flip screen in doing so; just one case I know.

They could make the eyepiece stand out as much as they want, it is just a matter of the focal length of the eyepiece lens.

I have worked in engineering design offices and this is how it works. Some senior director, who may not even be on the engineering side, gets a bee in his bonnet about something he wants*, or does not want, in the design. So the junior engineers have to abide by that even though they don't agree. Then someone has to make up a cock-and-bull story to "justify" the decision to go that way; the originating director does not do that because he didn't really have have a good reason in the first place and regards that as someone elses job. I can see that type of sub-plot written all over the Pentax press releases on this.

* A board member's wife in one case, I kid you not.
Still, does anyone really believe him or her complaining in this forum will change the screen of the coming camera? Confucius said: get over it.
It is as useful as the complaints about the lack of flash in K-3 II were. But it sold. And as useful as complaints about lack of flash on GRIII were, or flippy screen there, or viewfinder...
Not every model is for everyone and even if some can't believe it, they still can be great cameras and they might be commercially successful, even if you are not the target group with this model.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 09-06-2020 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Masked profanities in quoted text removed.
09-06-2020, 02:13 PM - 1 Like   #282
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I think people have perhaps missed the point that the number one feature of this camera is pretty simple: the k mount.

There aren't very many k mount cameras released every year. The last one by my count was the K-1 II, but maybe there was a KP version that was released after that. Regardless, having a camera with a nice viewfinder, slick operation and that functions with my lenses, even the KAF 4 ones without a clunk adapter is the sort of feature that is more important than a flippy screen.

I suppose Pentax has many of us over a barrel. If you own a bunch of FA limiteds, DFA zooms and are pleased with your glass, then you are going to end up choosing between the Pentax offerings, even if there are a few features that you would change. I don't know if I would get a K-new. I mostly shoot full frame these days, but I still do use my K-3 for telephoto work and wouldn't be against considering it if everything else looks right.
09-06-2020, 02:32 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
The diagram that has been posted a couple of times showing a K-New as 10mm less depth than a K-1 is misleading. I have just measured my K-1 and the flipping mechanism takes up 6mm, so the K-New would have a body depth of 68mm if it had the same mechanism as a K-1
You have mislead yourself, Pentax have only said that they used a fixed screen to reduce the size. I have scaled the image in CAD and the dimensions given are correct. The top of the screen I get as 7mm and the bottom as 8.2mm On the K1 there is also an extra 1mm between the sensor and the circuit board, perhaps for heat, perhaps for a larger component.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I guess there are other reasons for the K-1 being a whole 10mm thicker.
Indubitably (without doubt).

Perhaps the reduced size is aimed at their biggest market, Japan.
09-06-2020, 02:35 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think people have perhaps missed the point that the number one feature of this camera is pretty simple: the k mount.

There aren't very many k mount cameras released every year. The last one by my count was the K-1 II, but maybe there was a KP version that was released after that. Regardless, having a camera with a nice viewfinder, slick operation and that functions with my lenses, even the KAF 4 ones without a clunk adapter is the sort of feature that is more important than a flippy screen.

I suppose Pentax has many of us over a barrel. If you own a bunch of FA limiteds, DFA zooms and are pleased with your glass, then you are going to end up choosing between the Pentax offerings, even if there are a few features that you would change. I don't know if I would get a K-new. I mostly shoot full frame these days, but I still do use my K-3 for telephoto work and wouldn't be against considering it if everything else looks right.
Yes, people complained, complained, and complained some more as dealers ran out of K-3ii models to sell. I would think that they would be happy that there will again be cameras on the “APS-C flagship” shelf. The unhappiness about the lack of a flippy LCD is one of the reason I made my comment about complaining. I am happy with my decision to get a KP. I am sorry that they are acting unhappy.
09-06-2020, 02:50 PM - 1 Like   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by alfa75ts Quote
You have mislead yourself, Pentax have only said that they used a fixed screen to reduce the size. I have scaled the image in CAD and the dimensions given are correct. The top of the screen I get as 7mm and the bottom as 8.2mm On the K1 there is also an extra 1mm between the sensor and the circuit board, perhaps for heat, perhaps for a larger component.



Indubitably (without doubt).

Perhaps the reduced size is aimed at their biggest market, Japan.

The KP is 1.2 mm thicker (I just measured, from the cutaway photos, 63.08 mm) than the K-New, with a flippy screen. One. Point. Two. Millimeters. Thicker.

The argument about the screen being larger and not fitting otherwise I can buy. Saying it's for "thickness" is an absolute nope.
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