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09-10-2020, 07:29 AM - 4 Likes   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If you cannot afford the proper tool, then ask yourself whether you should be doing it at all.
Only today the tools come with a plethora of crutches for the unable. As the consequence skills/users degenerate over time and start to define "proper tool" as a "proper tool" that also has the 101st additional crutch.

It's like assumed adults who think they can drive a car and start crying when confronted with a manual gear shift. Or when asked to cook a proper meal themselves.


I once saw a dystopian sci-fi where the average human was a bloated fat guy going everywhere in an fully automatic levitating comfy chair with inbuilt toilet, which they now are physically unable to ever leave due to degenerated muscles.

We're getting there faster and faster. The worst thing is a lot of people seem to think that this scenario is good.


On internet forums this gets the cream topping by the most incompetent voices making statements about how [the equivalent of the automated levitating toilet seat] is the ultimate sign of "professional" / "flagship".

09-10-2020, 07:31 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by Henk T Quote
You end up with walking around with more than one camera. The only camera (not with two) I want to walk around with in nature should indeed be a swiss knife in that it includes amongst other obvious features a tilting screen as well as in-built GPS. The K-1 is most suitable for me and rather unique amongst competition for having in-built GPS. However I will have to forget getting a new camera in the lighter APS-C format.
I actually own multiple cameras and typically carry a couple with me, one with a standard zoom and one with a longer lens (preferably a prime). The only way around that is to use a super zoom and I am not willing to deal with the reduction in quality I get when using such a lens.

But I would think most people would know ahead of time if there primary objective is going to require a flippy screen or top end tracking auto focus and you could certainly choose the camera you take with you based on what you think you will be shooting. The reality is that you can shoot occasional over your head or macro shots without flippy screens and I have done it many times.

But I understand as well if the lack of this feature is a deal breaker for you...
09-10-2020, 07:34 AM - 1 Like   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The whole point is to do many tasks - not to do all tasks.
That is why the comments about opening wine bottles or making coffee are so funny - copying slides is only slightly less "funny".
Let's say you need to copy a slide or scan a document every once in a while and you don't have a dedicated scanner. What's the better solution, use your camera because it can do a reasonable job of that for no cost at all, or go buy the "proper" tool for the job for hundreds of dollars that you may not use again for another two years and you have to find a place to store?

Everyone has a primary use for their camera. Mine is often taking action photos of my kids playing sports. But I also use it for travel, landscapes, macros, and other things. So I'd appreciate it if the K-new was pretty good at things other than sports. I'm not going to wail and gnash teeth over the lack of a flippy screen, but I think I'd rather have had that than half an ounce and two millimeters.
09-10-2020, 07:37 AM - 1 Like   #454
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.... I bet it was named K-2020... and they had to nope on that one...
"new aps-c flagship" it is then

09-10-2020, 07:39 AM - 3 Likes   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Only today the tools come with a plethora of crutches for the unable. As the consequence skills/users degenerate over time and start to define "proper tool" as a "proper tool" that also has the 101st additional crutch.

It's like assumed adults who think they can drive a car and start crying when confronted with a manual gear shift. Or when asked to cook a proper meal themselves.


I once saw a dystopian sci-fi where the average human was a bloated fat guy going everywhere in an fully automatic levitating comfy chair with inbuilt toilet, which they now are physically unable to ever leave due to degenerated muscles.

We're getting there faster and faster. The worst thing is a lot of people seem to think that this scenario is good.


On internet forums this gets the cream topping by the most incompetent voices making statements about how [the equivalent of the automated levitating toilet seat] is the ultimate sign of "professional" / "flagship".
Socrates hated the innovation of writing and books because they impaired memory. No one ever has to remember anything if it's all written down, and we've all become weak of mind as a result. Perhaps we should have put a stop to all these crutches 2400 years ago. If only we could live exactly as the ancient Greeks we'd never be in a place where we can't go to the toilet ourselves.
09-10-2020, 07:39 AM - 2 Likes   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Let's say you need to copy a slide or scan a document every once in a while and you don't have a dedicated scanner. What's the better solution, use your camera because it can do a reasonable job of that for no cost at all, or go buy the "proper" tool for the job for hundreds of dollars that you may not use again for another two years and you have to find a place to store?

Everyone has a primary use for their camera. Mine is often taking action photos of my kids playing sports. But I also use it for travel, landscapes, macros, and other things. So I'd appreciate it if the K-new was pretty good at things other than sports. I'm not going to wail and gnash teeth over the lack of a flippy screen, but I think I'd rather have had that than half an ounce and two millimeters.
If you were off in the wilderness and had to copy an artifact before it was moved, I can see using this solution - but most of us live surrounded by civilization.

If I have to copy a slide every once in a while, I'll have a professional do it - that is why they exist.

If I have to copy a document every once in a while, I 'll go to Kinko's and have them to it.

This usage looks like a solution looking for a problem.
09-10-2020, 07:43 AM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Socrates hated the innovation of writing and books because they impaired memory. No one ever has to remember anything if it's all written down, and we've all become weak of mind as a result. Perhaps we should have put a stop to all these crutches 2400 years ago. If only we could live exactly as the ancient Greeks we'd never be in a place where we can't go to the toilet ourselves.
But by the same token, Einstein was asked once by a little kid how many digits of 'pi' he knew.
His answer was something like "3.14 - if I need any more, I know where to look".
Filling the mind with information is less useful than using it to hold references.

Last edited by reh321; 09-10-2020 at 07:50 AM.
09-10-2020, 07:44 AM - 5 Likes   #458
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I feel like the new flagship doesn't have an articulating screen is simply a choice to add emphasis to the statement piece this camera is going to be.

The statement piece that Pentax is not following the mirrorless mainstream mania.

Why emphasize Live View if you are designing a statement piece around the viewfinder? Especially when there are feasible work-arounds.

I have a hard time imagining that Ricoh Pentax isn't going to produce a camera with a flippy screen in the future.

This time, it's just to add as much emphasis to their statement as possible.


Last edited by FozzFoster; 09-10-2020 at 07:54 AM.
09-10-2020, 07:48 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
And here I thought that the entire point of a camera with interchangeable lenses was to have a Swiss Army Knife.



That's very nice until reality hits you with three or four tasks at the same time and you don't have a family of Sherpas available to carry all the tools.



Anyone unable to afford a 1Dx iii ought to stay out of taking photos of their kids doing sports, you're right. I mean, why bother.
I think you can do whatever you want with an ILC. The thing people have to understand is that every camera is a compromise of size, price, and features. There is a reason that an A9 isn't 80 megapixels -- the goal with that camera is high frame rate and lower megapixels and faster read out speeds were the result.

It isn't rocket science to take macro or scan slides with an SLR that doesn't have a flippy screen and if my many endeavor was sports, but I occasionally did the others, I would just make it work. But clearly it isn't the main intention of the K-new either.
09-10-2020, 07:49 AM - 3 Likes   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
.... I bet it was named K-2020... and they had to nope on that one...
"new aps-c flagship" it is then
In the style of Boaty McBoatface (for UK users around here), perhaps Penta SanPentax ?
09-10-2020, 07:52 AM - 4 Likes   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flubber Quote
So using a viewfinder requires "hyper-extendable necks and spines"?

I guess human beings in the film age were an entirely different breed altogether. I fail to see what any of this has to do with age. I am sure there are plenty of older photographers here who use their viewfinders. Viewfinder shooting is the original SLR method - not a new one for the young grasshoppers.
Macro and Astro. That's where I appreciate the flip screen- a LOT. And yes, to use the viewfinder while taking outdoor macro shots often requires contortions and crawling around- if you want the shot. The flip screen relieves all of that to a large degree- best camera feature ever IMO. Sure, you can set up a tablet or phone to pair with the camera- but that's just enough extra setup time to miss some shots. All I was saying, lol.
09-10-2020, 07:56 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If you were off in the wilderness and had to copy an artifact before it was moved, I can see using this solution - but most of us live surrounded by civilization.

If I have to copy a slide every once in a while, I'll have a professional do it - that is why they exist.

If I have to copy a document every once in a while, I 'll go to Kinko's and have them to it.

This usage looks like a solution looking for a problem.
Kinko's still exists?
09-10-2020, 07:59 AM - 2 Likes   #463
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... and honestly, it makes a decent amount of sense for Pentax to not want to keep pursing mirrorless markets.
To remove the pentaprism viewfinder for an EVF kinda flies in the face of what the name "PENTAx" stands for.

Leica still makes rangefinders.
Pentax still makes SLRs.

Everyone else is tripping over themselves solving problems we didn't know we had...

I'm actually pretty impressed with how Ricoh is managing the Pentax brand and how they are honouring the Pentax history and keeping with their morals.
Producing excellent cameras.
09-10-2020, 07:59 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Socrates hated the innovation of writing and books because they impaired memory. No one ever has to remember anything if it's all written down, and we've all become weak of mind as a result. Perhaps we should have put a stop to all these crutches 2400 years ago. If only we could live exactly as the ancient Greeks we'd never be in a place where we can't go to the toilet ourselves.
Diogenes was right.
09-10-2020, 08:00 AM - 2 Likes   #465
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Thanks for being a voice of reason in this increasingly absurd debate, reh321.

I've gotta say that the whole scanning issue comes across as bizarre nitpicking to me. If your biggest criticism of a camera is that it isn't suited for copying or scanning, then that's really no criticism at all, because that was never the intended purpose of the camera anyway. Yes, you can use a camera for scanning, but that's not an intended feature of it, it's just an unintended side benefit. Would you criticize a car for not being suited to winning a demolition derby?
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