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08-24-2020, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
If we look at Pentax DSLRs and understand their model release history, there's not been a lot of room for specialized cameras. The flagship of other brands can be supported by niche models in many cases, but Pentax really needs their flagship cameras to provide broad appeal. Not including a screen which can be angled seems very short sighted, or a concious decision to avoid making the KP seem obsolete.

Needing this feature doesn't mean someone doesn't need the flagship camera, but it likely means they will have tough choices to make including if they jump ship to another brand.
You are very right that Pentax does need well-rounded camera that appeals broadly.

The challenge for designers of this camera, though, is that many features that broaden the appeal among some potential customers lessen the appeal among other potential customers. Thus the designers need to think about:

The increase in sales from a flippy screen of some design.

The decrease in sales from a slightly heavier, thicker, higher-priced, more-fragile camera.

I have no idea what the exact numbers are but would suspect that Pentax has some idea of this based on sales data and surveys. That data would tell them how important each camera attribute might be and thus how to balance gains and losses of sales from including/excluding a feature and its consequences.

08-24-2020, 09:14 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
If we look at Pentax DSLRs and understand their model release history, there's not been a lot of room for specialized cameras. The flagship of other brands can be supported by niche models in many cases, but Pentax really needs their flagship cameras to provide broad appeal. Not including a screen which can be angled seems very short sighted, or a concious decision to avoid making the KP seem obsolete.

Needing this feature doesn't mean someone doesn't need the flagship camera, but it likely means they will have tough choices to make including if they jump ship to another brand.
Specialized? No more than the K-1 is, a camera excellent for landscape and less than ideal for fast moving subjects requiring responsiveness, fast AF w/ tracking and fast FPS.

Already by including flagship-like performance - which means flagship-like pricing, the camera is quite targeted: at those who need this performance.
It is not targeted at people who would take their time shooting flowers at ground level.

Ricoh is not concerned with this camera making the KP seem obsolete... if anything, they'd like people to buy it instead of the KP. OTOH, the KP is another "specialized" camera - giving up on a larger battery for style/interchangeable grips.
08-24-2020, 09:23 AM - 1 Like   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
I’m with you on the waiting, personally why not just make an app that lets you use your phone to see and control the camera eliminates the need for a flippy screen. I do it with my GoPro to check angle and start and stop recording...

JJ
I have cameras that offer this functionality and I use it from time to time. It does add a layer of complexity to the shooting situation though - take out phone, launch app, establish connection - along with also managing phone battery life. This use case is fine for when the camera is on a tripod and you are taking some time with a shot, not so much in fast moving situations or simple snapshots.
08-24-2020, 09:25 AM   #169
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I may have postulated this long before in a prior thread but regardless:

A fixed screen on the K-New guarantees at least >one< possible feature upgrade for the K-New II. 'course, adding the articulated screen will likely
mean eliminating some other desired feature and we'll have a redux of the K-3 vs K-3II debates. Anyone care to guess what will be nuked in order
to bring an articulating screen to the K-New II?

08-24-2020, 09:39 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
Anyone care to guess what will be nuked in order
to bring an articulating screen to the K-New II?
A couple mm of thickness*, half an ounce, ten bucks and a lot of complaints?


*The KP is thinner than the K-5 despite having the same alloy chassis, a flippy screen and a better SR system so even that one is debatable.
08-24-2020, 10:02 AM   #171
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All good arguments and thoughtful comments.
However, it probably is all quite a stretch and sole speculation if we want to extrapolate the reasoning of the designers from the information bits and prototype images we are having at the moment.

From these I would assume that the fixed screen seems to be a given if no major changes occur. I would never exclude a surprise, like a sort of new mechanism with magnets (while I don't think magnets behind the sensor with magnetic sensor based shake reduction are a trivial engineering solution) I would give it a chance of 10:90 in favour of a fixed LCD.
Pentax(Ricoh) always positioned their cameras towards popular models of other makers in the market. The higher class APS-C were in a class with D300 and K-P might have been an answer to the success of the XT-3. The latter being very senseful seeing the overlap of GR-users and Fuji users. The new camera probably doesn't address this users, here GR and KP might be their offers, sure, the KP might get a facelift to catch up to the specs of the XT-4.
For K-new I see two possibilities: it iss clearly closer to the K-3 series, and even as Nikon is restructuring and trying to adapt to the market, the D500 is still a worthwhile target to gain for. Probably the speed and AF-capabilities will not be topped, but some major advancements here should be possible. For this new technology that had to be implemented, a new viewfinder with a new measurement sensor had to be developed, that are supporting 3D-tracking? To allow keeping the high eyepoint with a larger viewfinder the protrusion of the viewfinder had to meet a certain requirement, not allowing any gain in thickness by any known movable screen mechanism?
Possibility B would be that P/R are really trying to address a new target group and they are designing a camera for that. We will see where the marketing will head to, I guess within the next weeks some direction might become more evident. They might have done their research and decided that the camera can be presented without the flipscreen, which would have been not only in the current concurrent models as D500 etc. but also in their own latest models.
If they present the development of an update to the KP at the time of the introduction of K-new they would offer a choice for both camps. And, as was said here too, maybe they managed to get a new and easy support for the use of mobile devices as screens, for tripod work as macros or night sky this might replace a flipscreen easily and could even give more flexibility. They might have gained some experience with the Theta where this seems to work quite flawless.
Edit: ups, that grew into a long post...

Last edited by MMVIII; 08-24-2020 at 10:08 AM.
08-24-2020, 10:12 AM - 1 Like   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
I would never exclude a surprise, like a sort of new mechanism with magnets (while I don't think magnets behind the sensor with magnetic sensor based shake reduction are a trivial engineering solution) I would give it a chance of 10:90 in favour of a fixed LCD.
If you:
- have to look at the camera from specific angles in order to "see" things, and even then it's debatable
- have to imagine never used before "invisible" mechanisms for doing a very simple thing (which was done in an obvious way, in many cameras before)
the screen is fixed.

08-24-2020, 01:14 PM - 2 Likes   #173
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They probably could have added the screen at researching time.
With added budget.
With added depth.
Without touch for sure.
With more time to design (supposedly overdue already).

And the forum would have moaned 'cos the cam is too expensive (who would have guessed?)

Can we get over it ?
08-24-2020, 01:17 PM - 2 Likes   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Specialized? No more than the K-1 is, a camera excellent for landscape and less than ideal for fast moving subjects requiring responsiveness, fast AF w/ tracking and fast FPS.

Already by including flagship-like performance - which means flagship-like pricing, the camera is quite targeted: at those who need this performance.
It is not targeted at people who would take their time shooting flowers at ground level.

Ricoh is not concerned with this camera making the KP seem obsolete... if anything, they'd like people to buy it instead of the KP. OTOH, the KP is another "specialized" camera - giving up on a larger battery for style/interchangeable grips.
Some flagships have this feature. You seem to think it isn't important and you are projecting disdain on those who find this an essential feature.
08-24-2020, 01:27 PM - 3 Likes   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Some flagships have this feature. You seem to think it isn't important and you are projecting disdain on those who find this an essential feature.
I'm well aware of the flagship cameras having articulated screens, and of those who don't.
I'm saying it isn't a flagship feature. Unlike, I don't know - dual card slots, solid body, performance... No, the articulated screen is not essential, but I fully understand why it can be important to some (I'm pretty much neutral about it).

Do you understand the issue here? The K-new doesn't have an articulated screen. That's a fact. The camera was presented, so we know already.
How many times do we have to "see" the same old slot which magically appears exactly on one picture taken at a specific angle? That's not disdain, that's exasperation.
08-24-2020, 01:35 PM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Specialized? No more than the K-1 is, a camera excellent for landscape and less than ideal for fast moving subjects requiring responsiveness, fast AF w/ tracking and fast FPS.

Already by including flagship-like performance - which means flagship-like pricing, the camera is quite targeted: at those who need this performance.
It is not targeted at people who would take their time shooting flowers at ground level.

Ricoh is not concerned with this camera making the KP seem obsolete... if anything, they'd like people to buy it instead of the KP. OTOH, the KP is another "specialized" camera - giving up on a larger battery for style/interchangeable grips.
I guess many of us would like besides high IQ improved/faster AF and higher FPS than current models. I'm always reminded of this wish at this time of the year when taking pics of butterflies and dragonflies. Many times I have to switch to manual focusing. However there is no connection of these features with the anticipated absence of a tilted screen of K-new for pics of other subjects.
08-24-2020, 01:42 PM - 1 Like   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Henk T Quote
I guess many of us would like besides high IQ improved/faster AF and higher FPS than current models. I'm always reminded of this wish at this time of the year when taking pics of butterflies and dragonflies. Many times I have to switch to manual focusing. However there is no connection of these features with the anticipated absence of a tilted screen of K-new for pics of other subjects.
Of course there is.
08-24-2020, 02:05 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Henk T Quote
I guess many of us would like besides high IQ improved/faster AF and higher FPS than current models. I'm always reminded of this wish at this time of the year when taking pics of butterflies and dragonflies. Many times I have to switch to manual focusing. However there is no connection of these features with the anticipated absence of a tilted screen of K-new for pics of other subjects.
I'm not sure what's the point you're trying to make.

The fixed (touch)screen is a deliberate decision by Ricoh Imaging, according to the type of camera they wanted to make.
08-24-2020, 03:04 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Without touch for sure.
Citation Needed*
08-24-2020, 03:06 PM   #180
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To make it clear: if I buy a new Pentax APS-C to replace the aging K-5 I would like it to be their state of the art on AF and resolution, therefore I prefer a novel flagship. Video is for me of no real interest. But a fixed screen is definitely for me a no-go for my use. I don't expect that I am unique in my requirements.
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