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08-25-2020, 01:37 AM - 2 Likes   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
You go and hike 20 km with the bird camera and the landscape camera, then . Sometimes you want a do-everything camera. Right know, that camera is the K-1 (I've been shooting some bursts here and there lately, its tracking woes are greatly exaggerated until the camera chokes on its pea-sized buffer).
If I would be in the waiting line for a new APS-C allround camera and this would include a flipscreen, then I would not wait for this one. I have bought the KP after evaluating my needs and seeing what that camera has to offer and it still fits very well.

If I would be in the waiting line for a new APS-C camera to replace a K-3, complement the K-1 by offering"more reach" with the same lenses, more speed and the same(!) large view through the viewfinder I would very much wait for this one.

As I am more in the boat of the KP user base I just assume that K-new took some time because a complete rehaul of the imaging pipeline has been done. I'm pretty sure that this can and will be implemented in some other models pretty quickly. No need to change much but with new electronics the KP II might again float my boat. Same with K-1 III for others, and they might flip.


Last edited by MMVIII; 08-25-2020 at 01:42 AM.
08-25-2020, 01:49 AM - 1 Like   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
The strawman is the theoretical person who merely wants to complain over trivial things and make a ruckus. You set this theoretical person up for failure by saying he's the same person who would care about a camera saying Ricoh on it instead of Pentax downplaying the feature of an articulating screen.
And that's another strawman; you're doing what you're accusing me to do.
First, such people are not theoretical. Second, I never claimed it's the exact same real people complaining about both.

People are as creative reinterpreting my posts as when seeing notches on the K-new.
And, I'd like to stop this chain of accusations/defense; I wouldn't want to be the cause of closing this thread. I've already made my position clear, whatever questions are already answered.
Thank you.
08-25-2020, 01:56 AM - 1 Like   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by pqberger Quote
As someone that's new to posting on PF I have found this thread and other similar ones quite a hard slog to read through. I get that we are all passionate Pentax users and we all have many needs/wants for our gear based on how and what we shoot but the tone can get a bit much at times. We cop enough from users of other brands without getting into each other.

I can't wait for K-New, it seems like forever. While the drip feeding of tidbits feels like a change for Pentax I just want the official announcement, release date and spec sheet. I like everyone else has their wishlist. I like new toys and as a new flagship there will be improvements over the K-3ii so I'll more than likely be grabbing one unless it's a ridiculous price, which isn't very Pentax as they are always such good value. Flippy screen/ no flippy screen is not a deal breaker for me although having one would be nice. A bigger brighter OVF sounds good but the eye sensor to turn off the screen hasn't really been an issue for me with the K-3 or K-1 unless of course we're getting a touch screen with it and then the extra 3mm for the eye piece won't be near enough for my pointed nose so I guess the sensor will be useful then.

While I think Pentax has a focus towards the landscape and portrait photographers I shoot other genres. I like photographing wildlife, birds and bugs in particular and I'm also regularly covering canine events. My hope for K-new is fast accurate AF and improved tracking particularly for my canine events where I'm following dogs trying to get movement shots. Black dogs are notoriously hard to focus on, even when they are not moving. A bigger buffer with faster clearing because by the time I'm shooting the 2nd dog in a class I'm often losing frames because I'm waiting for frames to be written to the SD card. Greater coverage of the screen with the AF points. For large dogs the bottom row of AF points may line up with the dog when I compose my shots for small ankle biters there's not a hope in hell, it's shoot wider and crop (I usually try to include handler and dog in the frame).

My wish isn't huge and it's probably similar to what some other's may want. I'll just have to wait and see what they give us and assess the value for myself. If I try and guess what's in it I'll get it wrong for sure.
That's more like it.
I believe you cover precisely some user cases for which the K-new is supposedly made.
08-25-2020, 03:03 AM - 2 Likes   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
If I would be in the waiting line for a new APS-C allround camera and this would include a flipscreen, then I would not wait for this one. I have bought the KP after evaluating my needs and seeing what that camera has to offer and it still fits very well.

If I would be in the waiting line for a new APS-C camera to replace a K-3, complement the K-1 by offering"more reach" with the same lenses, more speed and the same(!) large view through the viewfinder I would very much wait for this one.

As I am more in the boat of the KP user base I just assume that K-new took some time because a complete rehaul of the imaging pipeline has been done. I'm pretty sure that this can and will be implemented in some other models pretty quickly. No need to change much but with new electronics the KP II might again float my boat. Same with K-1 III for others, and they might flip.
Yeah, if they manage to lighten the K-1iii down a bit (shaving off, say, 100 g or so) while keeping everything else the same and giving it the enhanced pentaprism and a better buffer I'd be set forever (now that I've already swam into FA Limited land and likely won't go back to APS-C ).


To be clear, I'm not mad at the K-New or anything - it's a tech demo for Pentax to showcase the next generation of image processing and AF performance, so it will be expensive and specifically-tailored. The lack of flip screen means it's less of an all-rounder, but it's what it is. And, from a marketing point of view, it does make sense to bring the R&D expense to bear on action shooters: action is a traditionally very costly subset of photography because of the lenses typically involved, so the people who want what the K-New will presumably bring to the table are the ones willing to pay the money for a body that does what they want. I still think that a tilt-screen la KP would have added a lot of value at little cost, but I am biased toward the usability of the tilt screen and, more importantly, I do not work for Ricoh Imaging .


Would it be better if we didn't have to wait longer for a K-1iii or a KP-ii? Of course, but Pentax have to pick their battles. I hope that the K-New sells like hotcakes... and can't wait to see how the new stuff trickles to whatever's coming next.

08-25-2020, 04:14 AM - 2 Likes   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
This is a fabulous point. Many sound as though they are obliged to give Ricoh a very valued opinion of theirs for the sake of better product in the future. That being said - I would not be surprised (although I have no insider knowledge of this at all) if someone from Pentax reads the forum. I know for a fact that Leica folks actually do pay rather close attention to their forum members for our complaints. It is not a bad place to look. We are all very passionate about Pentax. Most of us care than not care. They just may be checking in without anybody here not knowing about it. They do openly say they want to listen to our needs. Why not look here?
It would be rather amazing if Pentax reps didn't read this forum. A least outside of Japan it has to be the single biggest source of information on what the Pentax user community is thinking and doing. It's a free source of data on their international customer base.

Yes, they have to wade through 50 pages of speculation on flippy screens, but that tells them something. At least part of their user base really likes a feature from the KP and K-1 and others. I think it's plausible, and pretty likely, that the reason the K-new is coming and appears to be action-oriented (as opposed to just having the K-1 serve as the brand's sole flagship), is feedback from the user community, including here. We've had countless threads about tracking autofocus, taking photos of weaving bicycles, norm quoting that one German study 1000 times, buffers taking forever to clear, etc, etc. Pentax absolutely knows that. If we, and DPReview, and surveys and reviews all just said we're taking photos of flowers and landscapes the K-new may well have taken a very different design path.

I would like to think that 0.0001% of the reason the K-new will be what it will be is that I posted a few times about having troubles getting soccer players in focus instead of the background.
08-25-2020, 04:17 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I guess they really want you to peak into that OVF.
Exactly!
08-25-2020, 04:57 AM - 2 Likes   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I would like to think that 0.0001% of the reason the K-new will be what it will be is that I posted a few times about having troubles getting soccer players in focus instead of the background.
Yes, I believe they will be incorporating "Fv" mode (F for football) just for that
08-25-2020, 05:02 AM - 2 Likes   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's more like it.
I believe you cover precisely some user cases for which the K-new is supposedly made.
I can only wait eagerly like the rest of us to see what the Pentax engineers will deliver. I've owned Pentax cameras since the Super A days. With a K10D, K-5, K-3ii and K-1, the holy trinity of zooms and a few other bits and pieces, I'm too invested in the landscape. If ever I was going to change systems it should have been before buying the K-1 and the zooms.... but I just like using the Pentax cameras. I'm sure I'll like the K-New and whatever deficiencies I find for the type of things I shoot, I'll just work around them as I've done with the models before. I know it'll be a step up from the K-3, hopefully in the areas where I'd like a little help.

08-25-2020, 05:31 AM - 1 Like   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by pqberger Quote
I can only wait eagerly like the rest of us to see what the Pentax engineers will deliver. I've owned Pentax cameras since the Super A days. With a K10D, K-5, K-3ii and K-1, the holy trinity of zooms and a few other bits and pieces, I'm too invested in the landscape. If ever I was going to change systems it should have been before buying the K-1 and the zooms.... but I just like using the Pentax cameras. I'm sure I'll like the K-New and whatever deficiencies I find for the type of things I shoot, I'll just work around them as I've done with the models before. I know it'll be a step up from the K-3, hopefully in the areas where I'd like a little help.
Same for me. I own so many lenses of Takumar, K, M, A, F, FA, DA series that changing to another system is not a clever idea. And all my old bodies except the *istD are still working.
I keep my patience to see what K-new will finally offer before deciding to buy the KP - probably next year.
08-25-2020, 09:44 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If you think about the roles those cameras are playing, it's not weird at all: the K-1 is a landscape machine, offering excellent image quality for deliberate shots (being quite a slow camera), while the K-new will offer speed.
What I'm saying is that an articulated screen was much more important for the K-1.
Yeah I would say that is a pretty good argument. But from what we have heard from Pentax - they are not really bragging about a huge improvement in AF or fps. If this new cam is for fast action, you would think they would touting that more than OVF that looks like FF. But yes I do see your point there.
08-25-2020, 09:54 AM - 2 Likes   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Yeah I would say that is a pretty good argument. But from what we have heard from Pentax - they are not really bragging about a huge improvement in AF or fps. If this new cam is for fast action, you would think they would touting that more than OVF that looks like FF. But yes I do see your point there.
They're not bragging, period.
Perhaps it was not the moment to give away the most important improvements? If they did, that would make for quite a boring, "I've seen this already" launch - this autumn or when they'll do it.
OTOH we have good reasons to suspect a new AF module (with larger coverage and AF points count), and we were told we'll be happy with its tracking.

It would be a mistake to assume no improvement.
08-25-2020, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
It's easy.
First rule: Don't assume you are influencing the development of the future camera by continuously expressing your disagreement with assumed decisions for it's design features.
QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
It would be rather amazing if Pentax reps didn't read this forum.
I remember one of the first interviews conducted by PentaxForums with a Pentax executive from Japan. It seemed obvious to me that the executive, while appreciative of PentaxForums, was not all that familiar with what the forum was about. He seemed completely surprised to learn that PentaxForums had a virtually complete database of all Pentax lenses, for example.

The latest Ricoh financial reports https://www.ricoh.com/-/Media/Ricoh/Sites/com/IR/financial_data/financial_re.../q1_report.pdf show that for the year ended March, 2020, the "Other"* business unit category, sales for The Americas was about 2% of Domestic sales (2.9 vs. 150.4 billion yen). Europe, Middle East and Africa totaled about 3% of domestic sales.

Recognizing that Ricoh Imaging may just be a small part of "Other," and Pentax a small part of Ricoh Imaging, one cannot assume the 2% figure applies to Pentax brand. But I think there is a significant possibility that we PentaxForumites have an inflated view of how important we are to the Pentax brand.

* In the past, Ricoh Imaging (which includes Pentax brand) was part of "Other." I didn't see Ricoh Imaging referenced at all, but am assuming it's still part of "Other." If someone knows better, please correct me!
08-25-2020, 10:50 AM - 2 Likes   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Yeah I would say that is a pretty good argument. But from what we have heard from Pentax - they are not really bragging about a huge improvement in AF or fps. If this new cam is for fast action, you would think they would touting that more than OVF that looks like FF. But yes I do see your point there.
Underpromise and overdeliver?
08-25-2020, 11:53 AM - 15 Likes   #224
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I'm going to post one last time and then I'm out for a while from the forum. I'm saddened by the tone of the posts from many who say that they are saddened by the brand bashing. Stating how important a flippy screen or tilting screen is to you is not brand bashing - it's also clearly a feature in quite a few "flagship bodies INCLUDING the K1. The right way to respond to those who are upset about it is to either ignore them or state your thoughts about how to influence the future of Pentax bodies. The wrong way is to belittle and make small those who say they want such a feature. My other brand cameras all have flip or tilt screens - until I had one, I didn't see the reason for it. Now I have some regret that my K-3 does not and the KP - despite the lack of some features - is very appealing to me for this reason. However the Knew is also quite appealing and I'm sad that Pentax(Ricoh) has put me in this position when the addition of the screen would have solved this for me.

Read your own replies in the thread and ask yourself - did I treat that person with respect and dignity or did I make them feel small and stupid. If the latter is true - your the problem and I wish you would find a way to make your point without taking other people down a notch.
08-25-2020, 12:31 PM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The design is finalized, the camera isn't.
That button on top left is a Lock button ...
So you press it when the design is final? h
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