[reh321]

It looks like you have to buy the ac transformer to be able to use the usb cable
the battery cradle charger for the K 5 etc can be plugged into the ac on its own ( thats what I use now for my K 5 ii )

Ricoh is giving you choices on how you want to charge the battery and from what you already own / use from previous cameras.

buy if you do not already have a transformer that works.
A few years ago I had a "Windows" phone - the transformer will work with my current iPhone, as will the usb port on my car.
The three sources have different levels of output, so I get different charging times, but I am OK with that.
I got a usb-a to usb-c converter with my laptop computer, and I have purchased two different others, so I am quite certain I could provide a suitable source of usb-c power if I were to purchase this kind of system.

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Last edited by reh321; 02-04-2021 at 11:22 AM. Reason: fix usb references

[angerdan]

I got a usb-A to usb_b converter with my laptop computer, and I have purchased two different others, so I am quite certain I could provide a suitable source of usb-b power if I were to purchase this kind of system.

I guess you mean USB-C

[angerdan]

Updated Charging times comparision table:

Charger	Time	Watt	Current	Voltage	source1	source2
K-BC90	5.3 h	3.4 W	400 mA	8.4 V	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-01.pdf#page=42	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1-2/accessories/index.html
AC-U1/2	4.5 h	5.0 W	1000 mA	5 V	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-3-3.pdf#page=42
D-BC177	4.4 h	6.7W	800 mA	8.4 V	ricoh-imaging.eu/eu_en/blog/pentax/high-speed-charger-for-pentax-standard-rechargeable-battery-d-li90/
K-BC177	2.5 h	12.6 W	1500 mA	8.4 V	ricoh-imaging.eu/de_de/battery-charger-d-bc177-1#product-specifications

Old table:
pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/411952-new-ricoh-charger-2.html#post5132292

[Kunzite]

This is interesting, but is there anything preventing a D-BC177 with a Power Delivery capable power supply charge the battery at the same speed as a K-BC177?

[reh321]

Updated Charging times comparision table:

Charger	Time	Watt	Current	Voltage	source1	source2
K-BC90	5.3 h	3.4 W	400 mA	8.4 V	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-01.pdf#page=42	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1-2/accessories/index.html
AC-U1/2	4.5 h	5.0 W	1000 mA	5 V	ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-3-3.pdf#page=42
D-BC177	4.4 h	6.7W	800 mA	8.4 V
K-BC177	2.5 h	12.6 W	1500 mA	8.4 V	ricoh-imaging.eu/de_de/battery-charger-d-bc177-1#product-specifications

Old table:
pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/411952-new-ricoh-charger-2.html#post5132292

The charger I have from Apple doesn’t have any markings.
Any idea how it would fit into this paradigm??

[angerdan]

This is interesting, but is there anything preventing a D-BC177 with a Power Delivery capable power supply charge the battery at the same speed as a K-BC177?

If the PD cable is connected to an power source which offers PD, then the same charging speed should be archieved.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#PD

The charger I have from Apple doesn’t have any markings. Any idea how it would fit into this paradigm??

Since apple keep the tech specs of their products as kind of secret, it might be offering Apple coding only.
USB charging

this article recommends to use third party charger+cables for iPhones, it is possible that your apple charger don't offer PD (Power Delivery).
USB Power Delivery is the fastest way to charge iPhone and Android devices | ZDNet

[stevebrot]

If the PD cable is connected to an power source which offers PD, then the same charging speed should be archieved.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#PD

Does "should be achieved" mean this has been done with the D-BC177 or does it mean "may be possible"?


Steve

[Not a Number]

According to Ricoh:

Battery charger without AC adapter for use with your own USB-C cable and AC adapter.
*Charging time is longer than K-BC177

Accessories? PENTAX K-1 Mark II | RICOH IMAGING

K-BC177 has higher amperage.

[stevebrot]

K-BC177 has higher amperage.

From what I can tell from the labeling the K-BC177 has selectable voltage/amperage on its K-AC166 ac converter.


Steve

[angerdan]

Does "should be achieved" mean this has been done with the D-BC177 or does it mean "may be possible"?

If Pentax did construct everything conform to official USB specifications, then it should be archieved. If Pentax don't follow the official USB specifications and implements an proprietary protocoll, it may not be possible.

From what I can tell from the labeling the K-BC177 has selectable voltage/amperage on its K-AC166 ac converter.

It has an automatic coding, like USB PD. So chances are high that USB PD is used.

[stevebrot]

If Pentax did construct everything conform to official USB specifications, then it should be archieved.

My understanding of USB PD is that it is programmable (PPS) in its current version. That does not equate to universal discovery of client spec by host or vice versa. The K-AC166 outputs 5V, 9V, or 12V, all at 3A according to its label. I am downloading the USB power specs (LINK (zip)) to see how it is supposed to work.

Added: This resource is proving useful... https://www.cui.com/blog/usb-type-c-pd-and-pps


Steve

[angerdan]

I believe the USB specifications followed by a letter (A, B, C) only refer to the physical configuration of the connector, while USB specifications followed by a number (USB 1.0, USB 3.1, etc.) deal with things like voltages

Not exactly. Letters are the physical specification, numbers the bandwith (and small current differences) and abbrevations like QC/PD for additional power (voltage/current).

Also, it looks like the new charger on that table you referenced in the other thread specifies a voltage of 5.0 volts, while the older chargers specify 8.4 volts. I am confused how a 5.0 volt charger could charge a battery pack to 8.4 volts.

I checked what's written on the back of the Ricoh AC-01. And that's "Output: 5.0V - 1000mA".
I don't know how the voltage would be converted between AC-01 and battery inside the camera.

[stevebrot]

If Pentax did construct everything conform to official USB specifications, then it should be archieved. If Pentax don't follow the official USB specifications and implements an proprietary protocoll, it may not be possible.

I am downloading the USB power specs (LINK (zip)) to see how it is supposed to work.

OK...this is what I have learned...any of the power supply (source), the charger (sink), or the cable plug may exchange the below, a combination of which might be used to gate features such as 12V/3A charge such that devices provide proprietary support even within scope of the standard:

• Vendor_ID
• Product_ID
• Manufacturer_Info
• Security_Request
• Security_Response
• Vendor_Defined (message)
• Something I didn't find

In simple terms, the charger or power adapter may determine whether to play or default back to minimum for the PB standard based what is learned during handshake.


Steve

[jon.partsch]

Not exactly. Letters are the physical specification, numbers the bandwith (and small current differences) and abbrevations like QC/PD for additional power (voltage/current).

I checked what's written on the back of the Ricoh AC-01. And that's "Output: 5.0V - 1000mA".
I don't know how the voltage would be converted between AC-01 and battery inside the camera.

I think I've become bored with the topic of how USB outputting 5v can charge a battery pack to 8.4v. The electrical engineer from Japan that was debating me in the other thread has since posted something about the camera possibly containing a step-up transformer to convert 5v to 10v or 20v, which was the ***exact point I was making*** in the first place, but I already committed to stop derailing that thread, so I will leave it alone.

I'm not going to be purchasing the fancy new charging kit anyway. I *can* see myself getting the downstream half of that bit of kit - the D-BC177 - and charging batteries with my smartphone's wall wart, as I will probably always be traveling with my smartphone too.

[mtkeller]

In simple terms, the charger or power adapter may determine whether to play or default back to minimum for the PB standard based what is learned during handshake.

It would be very nice if Ricoh doesn't gatekeep too hardcore on this. I would probably grab a D-BC177 and a USB power source that can deliver 12V/3A as well as the power that my MacBook Pro requires. (Of course the Apple one doesn't deliver 12V/3A.) That would streamline what I need to pack for a trip pretty nicely.