[New video Oct 27] New information about upcoming APS-C flagship model

Wheatfield · 12-01-2020, 07:51 AM - **6 Likes**

Originally posted by ojutan

without GPS and without builtin flash there isn't a justification for the target price.

One can say this about any minor feature being left off a product if that feature happens to be of some importance to a particular user.
Oh, they left off the full sized spare on the new Dodge. How can they possibly justify 40K for that car after they did that?

repaap · 12-01-2020, 10:24 AM

It could be that there is still that GPS on board. At first it went ’upthere’ to replace that popup flash. Now one might not agree that this new OVF is not enough to make the justification. But it is not just that what you’ll get for the money. But if that is not good enough for your money, just do not buy it. Propably it would be overkill anyway for good old Pentaxians who are happy with what they have already..

dbs · 12-01-2020, 05:15 PM - **3 Likes**

February .. is coming.
unless theres a

tsnami
fire
earthquake
volcanic eruption
global fiscal collapse
but February is coming

**Serkevan** · 12-02-2020, 02:45 AM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by dbs

February .. is coming.
unless theres a

tsnami
fire
earthquake
volcanic eruption
global fiscal collapse
but February is coming

Considering this joke of a year, none of those is off the table, and I'll throw in "asteroid hit" for good measure...

**ffking** · 12-02-2020, 03:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dbs

tsnami
fire
earthquake
volcanic eruption
global fiscal collapse
but February is coming

Don't forget :

Conquest,
War,
Famine,
Plague

**Rondec** · 12-02-2020, 03:45 AM - **1 Like**

There are lots of reasons why the camera could be delayed. The most obvious is simply if some component isn't available in the amounts they need. Or maybe COVID screwed up their testing and they need another month to work on it.

I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems.

reh321 · 12-02-2020, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

Considering this joke of a year, none of those is off the table, and I'll throw in "asteroid hit" for good measure...

So, maybe we should hope for an {early} 2021 announcement and release.

Kunzite · 12-02-2020, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

There are lots of reasons why the camera could be delayed. The most obvious is simply if some component isn't available in the amounts they need. Or maybe COVID screwed up their testing and they need another month to work on it.

I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems.

Yes, they really have to launch a fully tested, final product - rather than a "beta" version, even if the latter might be "fixed" with firmware.
If they screw it up (Ricoh Imaging didn't, Pentax did a few times) the poor impression of the camera would last. Which would be dangerous, perhaps fatal.

3 more months while the camera has a life time of several years. It's not that bad.

Zygonyx · 12-02-2020, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by dbs

February .. is coming.
unless theres a

tsnami
fire
earthquake
volcanic eruption
global fiscal collapse
but February is coming

Let me correct that "fiscal collapse" is highly unlikely.
They aways find someone to fill the gap

**termy** · 12-02-2020, 07:05 AM - **3 Likes**

Release the K3iiiken!

**Rondec** · 12-02-2020, 08:15 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Yes, they really have to launch a fully tested, final product - rather than a "beta" version, even if the latter might be "fixed" with firmware.
If they screw it up (Ricoh Imaging didn't, Pentax did a few times) the poor impression of the camera would last. Which would be dangerous, perhaps fatal.

3 more months while the camera has a life time of several years. It's not that bad.

It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well and good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that.

But consumers are pretty used to products being released in an advanced beta stage...

Kunzite · 12-02-2020, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well in good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that.

For those brands, it's seen as an advantage - excellent support

**ThorSanchez** · 12-02-2020, 09:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well in good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that.

But consumers are pretty used to products being released in an advanced beta stage...

As an engineer, I've sometimes heard the phrase "eventually you have to shoot the engineers." At some point you have to draw a line in the sand, set a deadline, stop the 12th round of testing, hold to your requirements, stop gold-plating and over-engineering.

Every product will have bugs. Especially electronics with software. If you want 0% defects you'll end up never releasing anything. I work on military electronics that are 20 years old that have dozens of open trouble reports. And it works very well.

repaap · 12-02-2020, 10:11 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Let me correct that "fiscal collapse" is highly unlikely.
They aways find someone to fill the gap

Would that fiscal collapse make a chain reaction which would cause earth to collaps to be flat, like pancake. That would make one group of people very happy..

gatorguy · 12-02-2020, 10:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems.

That reminds me...
I'm supposed to looking for one more "fully formed model" for a shoot this weekend. Thanks!

12-02-2020, 08:15 AM - 2 Likes	#1241
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Kunzite Yes, they really have to launch a fully tested, final product - rather than a "beta" version, even if the latter might be "fixed" with firmware. If they screw it up (Ricoh Imaging didn't, Pentax did a few times) the poor impression of the camera would last. Which would be dangerous, perhaps fatal. 3 more months while the camera has a life time of several years. It's not that bad. It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well and good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that. But consumers are pretty used to products being released in an advanced beta stage... Last edited by Rondec; 12-03-2020 at 03:39 AM.

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12-01-2020, 07:51 AM - 6 Likes	#1231
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by ojutan without GPS and without builtin flash there isn't a justification for the target price. One can say this about any minor feature being left off a product if that feature happens to be of some importance to a particular user. Oh, they left off the full sized spare on the new Dodge. How can they possibly justify 40K for that car after they did that?

12-01-2020, 10:24 AM	#1232
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	It could be that there is still that GPS on board. At first it went ’upthere’ to replace that popup flash. Now one might not agree that this new OVF is not enough to make the justification. But it is not just that what you’ll get for the money. But if that is not good enough for your money, just do not buy it. Propably it would be overkill anyway for good old Pentaxians who are happy with what they have already..

12-01-2020, 05:15 PM - 3 Likes	#1233
dbs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Clare Valley S A Photos: Albums Posts: 7,563	February .. is coming. unless theres a tsnami fire earthquake volcanic eruption global fiscal collapse but February is coming

12-02-2020, 02:45 AM - 5 Likes	#1234
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by dbs February .. is coming. unless theres a tsnami fire earthquake volcanic eruption global fiscal collapse but February is coming Considering this joke of a year, none of those is off the table, and I'll throw in "asteroid hit" for good measure...

12-02-2020, 03:16 AM - 1 Like	#1235
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by dbs tsnami fire earthquake volcanic eruption global fiscal collapse but February is coming Don't forget : Conquest, War, Famine, Plague

12-02-2020, 03:45 AM - 1 Like	#1236
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	There are lots of reasons why the camera could be delayed. The most obvious is simply if some component isn't available in the amounts they need. Or maybe COVID screwed up their testing and they need another month to work on it. I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems.

12-02-2020, 04:56 AM	#1237
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,179	Originally posted by Serkevan Considering this joke of a year, none of those is off the table, and I'll throw in "asteroid hit" for good measure... So, maybe we should hope for an {early} 2021 announcement and release.

12-02-2020, 05:07 AM	#1238
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec There are lots of reasons why the camera could be delayed. The most obvious is simply if some component isn't available in the amounts they need. Or maybe COVID screwed up their testing and they need another month to work on it. I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems. Yes, they really have to launch a fully tested, final product - rather than a "beta" version, even if the latter might be "fixed" with firmware. If they screw it up (Ricoh Imaging didn't, Pentax did a few times) the poor impression of the camera would last. Which would be dangerous, perhaps fatal. 3 more months while the camera has a life time of several years. It's not that bad.

12-02-2020, 05:48 AM	#1239
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by dbs February .. is coming. unless theres a tsnami fire earthquake volcanic eruption global fiscal collapse but February is coming Let me correct that "fiscal collapse" is highly unlikely. They aways find someone to fill the gap

12-02-2020, 07:05 AM - 3 Likes	#1240
termy Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 1,154	Release the K3iiiken!

12-02-2020, 08:52 AM	#1242
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well in good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that. For those brands, it's seen as an advantage - excellent support

12-02-2020, 09:12 AM - 1 Like	#1243
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by Rondec It is really odd to me that we have gotten to the point that photographers response to flaws in a camera that is released is: "Oh well, they'll fix it with a firmware update." That's all well in good for auto focus issues with a Z series camera, or overheating with Canon MILC, but Pentax isn't going to weather the bad press from something like that. But consumers are pretty used to products being released in an advanced beta stage... As an engineer, I've sometimes heard the phrase "eventually you have to shoot the engineers." At some point you have to draw a line in the sand, set a deadline, stop the 12th round of testing, hold to your requirements, stop gold-plating and over-engineering. Every product will have bugs. Especially electronics with software. If you want 0% defects you'll end up never releasing anything. I work on military electronics that are 20 years old that have dozens of open trouble reports. And it works very well.

12-02-2020, 10:11 AM - 2 Likes	#1244
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by Zygonyx Let me correct that "fiscal collapse" is highly unlikely. They aways find someone to fill the gap Would that fiscal collapse make a chain reaction which would cause earth to collaps to be flat, like pancake. That would make one group of people very happy..

12-02-2020, 10:12 AM - 1 Like	#1245
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by Rondec I suppose in the end it is better to release a fully formed model than to have to release firmware updates a week after launch to delay with problems. That reminds me... I'm supposed to looking for one more "fully formed model" for a shoot this weekend. Thanks!