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12-16-2020, 10:00 AM   #1471
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And yeah, it's different from the JPEG-only corrections - it's done on the flight, as the data is transferred from the sensor.
And if this were a Sony product, they could integrate the 'accelerator' into the sensor, and we would not ever be told it was happening.
If they did the functioning at all ISO levels, we couldn't even see it in the curves.

12-16-2020, 10:06 AM - 1 Like   #1472
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
And if this were a Sony product, they could integrate the 'accelerator' into the sensor, and we would not ever be told it was happening.
If they did the functioning at all ISO levels, we couldn't even see it in the curves.
The accelerator was fine, even great with the K-70 and KP.

The only reason we're discussing this is because we had the K-1 and then the K-1 II - and people could see the improved images and complain about the removal of image noise (calling it "detail loss").
If the future cameras would make the accelerator optional, I'm afraid people would be:
a. comparing noise with the accelerator NR disabled (while the competition is free to do whatever processing they desire)
b. continue to complain about "detail loss" with the accelerator NR enabled.
Pentax just can't win this.
12-16-2020, 10:06 AM - 4 Likes   #1473
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
There is nothing in electronics that can't be bypassed. A bypass can always be engineered. Prove me wrong.[COLOR=Silver]


Sorry, you cannot ask people to prove your statements. It's up to you.
12-16-2020, 10:06 AM   #1474
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
That's disappointing. Can't you disable the High ISO NR in the menu settings on the Z5? I know you can on the D750.
Yes you can turn it off for JPEG. I think it's baked in for RAW to some degree.

The other manufacturers are doing this as well. It's not a "pure" RAW anymore. The end results are extremely nice images though with high detail so it's not something I'm worried about in the least. This Z5 has the nicest OOC images I've ever seen from any camera I've used including the D-750, for 1199 it was a great value. It's only real downside I can find is 4.5 FPS.

12-16-2020, 10:16 AM   #1475
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Some K-3III porn.

FCC Filing Reveals 'Naked' Pentax K-3 Mark III Without its Outer Shell
12-16-2020, 10:18 AM - 2 Likes   #1476
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
And if this were a Sony product, they could integrate the 'accelerator' into the sensor, and we would not ever be told it was happening.
If they did the functioning at all ISO levels, we couldn't even see it in the curves.
That is so untrue.
  1. The accelerator causes non-linear behaviour that is very obvious in graphs, e.g. at photonstophotos
  2. The difference compared to reference cameras would be obvious.
  3. People such as Bill Claff, Jim Kasson, Falk Lumo et al. are always looking for exactly this sort of thing. A lot of people dig through the data at DxO and photonstophotos.
12-16-2020, 10:19 AM   #1477
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QuoteOriginally posted by ofer4 Quote
I don't know how they've managed to conclude that the camera does not have IBIS .

12-16-2020, 10:20 AM   #1478
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QuoteOriginally posted by ofer4 Quote
May the search for the GPS unit begin.
12-16-2020, 10:22 AM - 1 Like   #1479
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
That is so untrue.
  1. The accelerator causes non-linear behaviour that is very obvious in graphs, e.g. at photonstophotos
  2. The difference compared to reference cameras would be obvious.
  3. People such as Bill Claff, Jim Kasson, Falk Lumo et al. are always looking for exactly this sort of thing. A lot of people dig through the data at DxO and photonstophotos
It is so true, In two years, I have never seen that kind of behavior in photos I have taken with my KP.
Apparently you have to dig for unusual cases, instead of merely using it.

p.s. - Isn't this a different case - converting from 'raw' to 'jpg' - than what is done by the 'accelerator' to reduce noise, improve DR, and improve color???

Last edited by reh321; 12-16-2020 at 10:34 AM. Reason: added p.s.
12-16-2020, 10:43 AM - 1 Like   #1480
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
They said that as part of their PF interview at 2019 CP+.
{you can look for it - I won't bother}
According to the translation, he says, "it is a little difficult". He did not seem to make anywhere near as strong a statement as I've read from users not familiar with internal details, on several forums.

The fact that people are implicating DPReview as some sort of culprit suggests to me there's a widespread feeling that the shortcoming must never be acknowledged, for the good of the tribe or something like that. It would be nice if we could come down from our trees and just acknowledge that a request exists from a significant subgroup of Pentax users for all noise reduction to be optional. Maybe this holy war can then be suspended until the workings of the accelerator in the K-3 III are confirmed.
12-16-2020, 10:51 AM   #1481
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
According to the translation, he says, "it is a little difficult". He did not seem to make anywhere near as strong a statement as I've read from users not familiar with internal details, on several forums.

The fact that people are implicating DPReview as some sort of culprit suggests to me there's a widespread feeling that the shortcoming must never be acknowledged, for the good of the tribe or something like that. It would be nice if we could come down from our trees and just acknowledge that a request exists from a significant subgroup of Pentax users for all noise reduction to be optional. Maybe this holy war can then be suspended until the workings of the accelerator in the K-3 III are confirmed.
This is just typical Oriental politeness - they try avoid ever saying "no".
Are you familiar with the internal workings - you do know which the controls are {what the "pin out" is} of the 'accelerator'?

The 'accelerator' does so much more than reduce noise - it also gives better color and DR.
Maybe you will win one from from Adam so you will no longer speak out of ignorance.
I find that most complaints come from people who have never used the 'accelerator' in regular life.

Last edited by reh321; 12-16-2020 at 10:59 AM.
12-16-2020, 11:30 AM   #1482
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
This is just typical Oriental politeness - they try avoid ever saying "no".
If we were expecting "Oriental politeness", why did we ask him the question at all? Just to continue with our pre-existing opinion regardless of what he might have said? I hope not.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Tthe 'accelerator' does so much more than reduce noise - it also gives better color and DR.
Maybe you will win one from from Adam so you will no longer speak out of ignorance.
I did some very in-depth investigations of the raw files when the KP came out, and if you'd read what I posted (here's the list of my articles on the KP), you'd know that I concluded that they behave better with additional NR from DxO than the K-70's files did. So for at least one version of DxO, it is true that the KP's accelerator NR stacks with DxO's PRIME, at least as long as the KP masquerades as a K-70 - because DxO did not at that time support the KP, I had to cheat, but that worked fine. Iirc, I did not re-test the behaviour when DxO added direct support for the KP, but one should reasonably be surprised if it behaved worse in that case.

What we will never know is what the files would look like without Accelerator NR, so we can arrive at absolutely no conclusions in that regard. But I would like to have this knowledge with regard to future cameras.

Additionally, there is a lingering concern that the Accelerator, apparently being differently configured for each camera, won't always collaborate agreeably with third party software - for instance, comparing high ISO images from the K-1 and K-1 II, after DxO PRIME treatment, the K-1 classic came out ahead. If it could be disabled, we could be far more certain that we always have an option to obtain a file in which the assumptions of DxO PRIME's statistical model are not violated.
12-16-2020, 12:02 PM - 1 Like   #1483
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
It is so true, In two years, I have never seen that kind of behavior in photos I have taken with my KP.
Apparently you have to dig for unusual cases, instead of merely using it.

p.s. - Isn't this a different case - converting from 'raw' to 'jpg' - than what is done by the 'accelerator' to reduce noise, improve DR, and improve color???
Are you a raw shooter? If not this discussion is moot.

For others in this thread:
People having different requirements is completely expected. There is pleny of straw men doing the rounds.

The simple thing would be to say that you have no need to redevelop 10 year old photos, that you don't use software that allow tweaking the parameters of noise reduction, or that quality differences that small are of no use for you. That would be completely fair. Pentax has clearly made the decision in your favour and discounted the use case where my list applies. We are not alone in Pentax land complaining about baked NR however. Plenty people understand the downsides.

It would be easy to address the list instead of making up detour arguments about things not relevant to the case against nr. We are all in the dark to a large extent about what Pentax is doing. Transparency from the brand would help.
12-16-2020, 12:03 PM - 2 Likes   #1484
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I wish there would be a way for you to give Pentax feedback and place suggestions and wishes. That way you could explain to rhem how important it would be for you that you could surpass their designed imaging processing and there would be no reason to try to convince those who think their Pentax camera works as intended that they agreed with your position. I really doubt bringing it up here ad nauseam will change the decision of the development team the slightest. But it feels patronising to those who think their cameras work and there is nothing wrong with them.
And it might also avoid too big a disappointment if the K-3III will also include this technology. Which is very likely, and most possibly without an off switch. Just saying.
12-16-2020, 12:08 PM - 1 Like   #1485
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
If we were expecting "Oriental politeness", why did we ask him the question at all? Just to continue with our pre-existing opinion regardless of what he might have said? I hope not.
I suspect they asked the question because it has been asked so often here, so they wanted an 'official' answer.
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