[New video Oct 27] New information about upcoming APS-C flagship model

surfar · 10-28-2020, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Genuine question, as I don’t know the answer.

Your brother knows,ask him,he is right there!

noelpolar · 10-28-2020, 11:17 PM - **2 Likes**

mmm... after readimg all posts in this thread..... and then completing an extensive internet search.... I think I have made one significant decision.... I too would not kick Candice Swanepoel out of bed after just one "wind indiscretion".

**RobA_Oz** · 10-28-2020, 11:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by surfar

Your brother knows,ask him,he is right there!

I take it that means you don’t know either.

**Serkevan** · 10-29-2020, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Those figures are just magnification values, though. Did they also improve the light transmission, to offset the reduction in luminosity? Genuine question, as I don’t know the answer.

No clue - the 7Dii I handled once and it felt similar to the K-7 in luminosity, but without side-by-side comparison it's hard to say. I have never held a D500.

---------- Post added 10-29-20 at 12:43 AM ----------

Originally posted by someasiancameraguy

Yeah of course the layers on top can be changed. But given that on sensor PDAF is "on sensor" and the discussion about the sensor IQ coming off the K-3/3, its reasonable to assume without new information that the sensor is unlikely changed and the on sensor PDAF points are still there.

There are indications that some Sony sensors are using a 2x2 microlens design which effectively makes every pixel capable of PDAF and hence solves the banding and loss of IQ issues with older OSPDAF, but that tech is currently applied to mobile based chips and there's no specific mention of this with regards to this specific sensor as so far.

"On sensor" means that the PDAF is measured by the sensor, but it's a mask applied on top of the sensor proper. Not part of the wafer itself.

**StiffLegged** · 10-29-2020, 12:46 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by LeeRunge

Then you would appreciate the strengths of other brands outside of Pentax for their contributions in the art of photography I'm sure.

No: brands don’t make photographs, people do. Whether I buy the K-new, Nikon Zwhatever, Sony, Zeiss etc, they’re just paperweights unless someone uses them. So enjoy the gear, I’ll enjoy the results instead - without caring what they were made with.

Class A · 10-29-2020, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by mee

Doesn't that normally happen with the electronic shutter but not mechanical shutter?

No, the striping/banding issues are occurring independently of the shutter type.

Class A · 10-29-2020, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

No phase detection in live view mode, it seems.

I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF.

Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF.

house · 10-29-2020, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by clackers

?

It is 26Mp APS-C, that's in the list of specifications.

Sony make such a sensor and it's in the Fuji XT-3, XT-4, house.

I wasn't aware that the 26mp datapoint was enough to determine what sensor it is. But if it's certain that there's only one 26mp sensor available it can only be that one. I have no connections in the sensor business nor do I follow leaks and such in that field so I didn't know.

Pentax strategy seems to be to wait a few years and use the best sensors a few years after other brands come out with their models. Just another thing suggesting it might be the Fuji sensor.

**Serkevan** · 10-29-2020, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by house

I wasn't aware that the 26mp datapoint was enough to determine what sensor it is. But if it's certain that there's only one 26mp sensor available it can only be that one. I have no connections in the sensor business nor do I follow leaks and such in that field so I didn't know.

Pentax strategy seems to be to wait a few years and use the best sensors a few years after other brands come out with their models. Just another thing suggesting it might be the Fuji sensor.

I *think* there are two off the shelf sensors that fit the bill... one is BSI, the other FSI if memory serves right. I'd have to double check.

MJKoski · 10-29-2020, 02:40 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Class A

I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF.

Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF.

Indeed, it can be used wrong and acceptably. Nikon does the former and Sony accomplishes the latter. Nikon Z-series have nasty problems in high DR scenes were one wants to lift the shadows. Sony, on the other hand, is the other way around - banding is rarely seen in the highlights part of the image.

Here is a sample from my (now sold) Z6:

That is part of a nighttime exposure @ ISO100 where the foreground is pushed few stops. Another, slight banding in the sky-region:

Banding vanishes as the ISO is upped enough due to higher noise.

**Rondec** · 10-29-2020, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF.

Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF.

I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past.

I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price.

Breakfastographer · 10-29-2020, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past.

I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price.

Yes, the K-70 uses the OSPDAF version of the sensor:

Pentax K-70 Review - Focusing | PentaxForums.com Reviews

**Serkevan** · 10-29-2020, 02:57 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Rondec

I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past.

I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price.

If you want a hybrid camera that does good AF during video then one could argue that it's needed, but with all the talk of an OVF-centric camera and having a fixed screen, OSPDAF would just be reducing the IQ for no real gain.

**Rondec** · 10-29-2020, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by Serkevan

If you want a hybrid camera that does good AF during video then one could argue that it's needed, but with all the talk of an OVF-centric camera and having a fixed screen, OSPDAF would just be reducing the IQ for no real gain.

Maybe so. I would just be happy if Pentax enabled focus peaking during video operation. I've never liked auto focus during video very much (and I don't think the K-70 can use the PDAF points during video operation, only before).

k1man · 10-29-2020, 03:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

The KP already has DOF bracketing, Steve.

Hiya Ian, but can it take a crappy snappy like I do, in jest but this forthcoming K3iii has been seriously dissected already by most here haha not much to say, I am waiting for an updated K1iii, to take more crappy snaps, jeez this is fun, abated breath I am, hope you don't mind my nonsense, Ian

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10-28-2020, 11:15 PM	#406
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Genuine question, as I don’t know the answer. Your brother knows,ask him,he is right there!

10-28-2020, 11:17 PM - 2 Likes	#407
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	mmm... after readimg all posts in this thread..... and then completing an extensive internet search.... I think I have made one significant decision.... I too would not kick Candice Swanepoel out of bed after just one "wind indiscretion".

10-28-2020, 11:25 PM - 1 Like	#408
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by surfar Your brother knows,ask him,he is right there! I take it that means you don’t know either.

10-29-2020, 12:38 AM	#409
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Those figures are just magnification values, though. Did they also improve the light transmission, to offset the reduction in luminosity? Genuine question, as I don’t know the answer. No clue - the 7Dii I handled once and it felt similar to the K-7 in luminosity, but without side-by-side comparison it's hard to say. I have never held a D500. ---------- Post added 10-29-20 at 12:43 AM ---------- Originally posted by someasiancameraguy Yeah of course the layers on top can be changed. But given that on sensor PDAF is "on sensor" and the discussion about the sensor IQ coming off the K-3/3, its reasonable to assume without new information that the sensor is unlikely changed and the on sensor PDAF points are still there. There are indications that some Sony sensors are using a 2x2 microlens design which effectively makes every pixel capable of PDAF and hence solves the banding and loss of IQ issues with older OSPDAF, but that tech is currently applied to mobile based chips and there's no specific mention of this with regards to this specific sensor as so far. "On sensor" means that the PDAF is measured by the sensor, but it's a mask applied on top of the sensor proper. Not part of the wafer itself.

10-29-2020, 12:46 AM - 2 Likes	#410
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,617	Originally posted by LeeRunge Then you would appreciate the strengths of other brands outside of Pentax for their contributions in the art of photography I'm sure. No: brands don’t make photographs, people do. Whether I buy the K-new, Nikon Zwhatever, Sony, Zeiss etc, they’re just paperweights unless someone uses them. So enjoy the gear, I’ll enjoy the results instead - without caring what they were made with.

10-29-2020, 01:33 AM	#411
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by mee Doesn't that normally happen with the electronic shutter but not mechanical shutter? No, the striping/banding issues are occurring independently of the shutter type.

10-29-2020, 01:35 AM	#412
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Mistral75 No phase detection in live view mode, it seems. I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF. Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF.

10-29-2020, 01:52 AM	#413
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by clackers ? It is 26Mp APS-C, that's in the list of specifications. Sony make such a sensor and it's in the Fuji XT-3, XT-4, house. I wasn't aware that the 26mp datapoint was enough to determine what sensor it is. But if it's certain that there's only one 26mp sensor available it can only be that one. I have no connections in the sensor business nor do I follow leaks and such in that field so I didn't know. Pentax strategy seems to be to wait a few years and use the best sensors a few years after other brands come out with their models. Just another thing suggesting it might be the Fuji sensor.

10-29-2020, 02:21 AM	#414
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by house I wasn't aware that the 26mp datapoint was enough to determine what sensor it is. But if it's certain that there's only one 26mp sensor available it can only be that one. I have no connections in the sensor business nor do I follow leaks and such in that field so I didn't know. Pentax strategy seems to be to wait a few years and use the best sensors a few years after other brands come out with their models. Just another thing suggesting it might be the Fuji sensor. I think there are two off the shelf sensors that fit the bill... one is BSI, the other FSI if memory serves right. I'd have to double check.

10-29-2020, 02:40 AM - 3 Likes	#415
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	Originally posted by Class A I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF. Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF. Indeed, it can be used wrong and acceptably. Nikon does the former and Sony accomplishes the latter. Nikon Z-series have nasty problems in high DR scenes were one wants to lift the shadows. Sony, on the other hand, is the other way around - banding is rarely seen in the highlights part of the image. Here is a sample from my (now sold) Z6: That is part of a nighttime exposure @ ISO100 where the foreground is pushed few stops. Another, slight banding in the sky-region: Banding vanishes as the ISO is upped enough due to higher noise.

10-29-2020, 02:43 AM	#416
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Class A I noticed that but it doesn't 100% rule out that the sensor would be able to perform PDAF. Let's hope the sensor will be lacking OSPDAF. I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past. I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price.

10-29-2020, 02:55 AM	#417
Breakfastographer Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 673	Originally posted by Rondec I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past. I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price. Yes, the K-70 uses the OSPDAF version of the sensor: Pentax K-70 Review - Focusing \| PentaxForums.com Reviews

10-29-2020, 02:57 AM - 2 Likes	#418
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Rondec I agree. There is no particular point in investing in a top end PDAF through the viewfinder system and then getting a sensor with PDAF on the sensor. But doesn't the K-70 have the option to use PDAF on the sensor when in live view? I thought I had read that in the past. I'm guessing that Sony will tweak their sensors to your desired specifications, if you are willing to pay the price. If you want a hybrid camera that does good AF during video then one could argue that it's needed, but with all the talk of an OVF-centric camera and having a fixed screen, OSPDAF would just be reducing the IQ for no real gain.

10-29-2020, 03:00 AM	#419
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Serkevan If you want a hybrid camera that does good AF during video then one could argue that it's needed, but with all the talk of an OVF-centric camera and having a fixed screen, OSPDAF would just be reducing the IQ for no real gain. Maybe so. I would just be happy if Pentax enabled focus peaking during video operation. I've never liked auto focus during video very much (and I don't think the K-70 can use the PDAF points during video operation, only before).

10-29-2020, 03:09 AM - 1 Like	#420
k1man Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Si Chiang Mai. Nong Khai Province Photos: Albums Posts: 358	Originally posted by clackers The KP already has DOF bracketing, Steve. Hiya Ian, but can it take a crappy snappy like I do, in jest but this forthcoming K3iii has been seriously dissected already by most here haha not much to say, I am waiting for an updated K1iii, to take more crappy snaps, jeez this is fun, abated breath I am, hope you don't mind my nonsense, Ian