[cometguy]

The extreme end of this is the ProRaw DNG's that the iPhone 12 creates with computational stuff baked into the RAW. I have an iPhone 12 pro max and it's shocking how good it is in conditions that used to be the domain of full frame cameras. It actually outperforms any of my large sensor cameras handheld in extreme low light situations for still subjects. You can't beat it without using a tripod. It'll take shots handheld that my K-3 which is rated -3 EV can't even find focus in, and they'll look like a long exposure of 10+ seconds with a tripod. And now it does this with RAW files storing all the best information the algorithms can mine from multiple exposures and leaving you with an optimized RAW to manipulate to your taste.

yes, I'm amazed at the photos being posted on iPhone photography forums with the new iPhone cameras. Those iPhones are pretty expensive (> $1000 USD), and people seem to buy new expensive iPhones every 2-4 years, which surprises me. I keep my iPhones for 8-10 years (!) and prefer to spend more money on my DSLR equipment. But I'm in the tiny minority in this, I see...
Prior to the iPhone 11 and 12 super-cameras (and the new Google-platform smartphone cameras), I was thinking that Pentax had more of a chance getting spill-over photography fans who find smartphone cameras to be "not enough", but with the lastest iPhone12, it's getting harder to see many iPhone photographers going for DSLRs for the first time.

[RobA_Oz]

Is my web cam on?

I’m not at liberty to say...

That's my "pocket" knife.

You call that a knife?

[SunnyG.]

Which "silly things" are you talking about "experimenting with"??
You are aware, aren't you, that the 'accelerator' currently used in the K-70, KP, and K-1ii, noticeably decreases noise, increases DR and improves color rendition??

I have seen high iso, low light, raw files from the k-1 mk2. It smears a lot of detail. Compared it to my friend's k-1. The k-1 has more details. It doesn't look artificial either.

---------- Post added 12-17-20 at 02:25 AM ----------

The accelerator is most likely here to stay.

Honestly, whatever keeps me from spending more than a click or two on NR is great. I have an original K-1 but there is no instance where I willingly leave the noise in.

Instead of the accelerator unit, if they improved the prosessor, and used a better BSI sensor in the next model. I think that would be much better. For the money we pay, the k-1 mk2 is an amazing camera. As soon as it's in stock here I will buy it.

---------- Post added 12-17-20 at 02:29 AM ----------

I have not seen that effect in my photos {taken with a KP}.
I love what my KP does.
If you own a K-1, and have questions about the ‘accelerator’, how can you justify “needing” a KP?

I don't own a K-1 buddy! My friend does. Why do you think I own a k-1? I don't think I have inferred it. If I owned a k-1 I wouldn't be posting on the raffles thread.

Don't send out wrong signals.

[Mistral75]

(...)

You call that a knife?

It's meant to pierce.

[SunnyG.]

Is this just people with small noses or any size nose?

I own a K-1 and K-1 II and I don't think it is a big difference. If I am shooting landscapes I use low iso and the accelerator isn't doing anything. If I am shooting at iso 6400, I have less work to do after the fact because of the accelerator on the K-1 II, but it isn't the end of the world to do my own noise reduction in post. Either way, they are iso 6400 images and so much of the "detail" is actually noise.

My bad, don't mind the typo 😂.



You are right, it's not a huge difference! I just wish they would let us turn off the processing from the accelerator unit, after we turn off the N.R.

Btw, my buddy owns a K-1, not me. I have used it a lot. And compared it with the raw files from the mk-2.

---------- Post added 12-17-20 at 02:41 AM ----------

After you apply NR to any high-ISO image there will also be a loss of detail. It will make the image look bad at large sizes.

The alternative, of course, is a *noisy image*, which looks bad at any size . If you are concerned about the fine details you shoot ISO 100-400.

Even after NR is turned off, processing effect of the accelerator unit is clearly evident!

---------- Post added 12-17-20 at 02:44 AM ----------

By definition, that would make it a new sensor.



This is what is known in polite circles as 100% dead wrong.

I have seen high iso low light files from cameras. It does. Not saying it's a huge difference. But there is a difference!

---------- Post added 12-17-20 at 02:46 AM ----------

That's not true.

Buddy, I have checked it myself! In extreme situations it does. If you check carefully, you can find it. Not a huge difference, but there is a difference between the raw files of the mk1 and mk2

[Kunzite]

Buddy, I have checked it myself! In extreme situations it does. If you check carefully, you can find it. Not a huge difference, but there is a difference between the raw files of the mk1 and mk2

I checked it myself, too. I couldn't find anything significant, above the point "was that a hint of detail? was that noise?". In such extreme situations, you have no picture to begin with!
The difference between the RAWs is in the K-1 II's favor IMHO.

[Kunzite]

Instead of the accelerator unit, if they improved the prosessor, and used a better BSI sensor in the next model. I think that would be much better. For the money we pay, the k-1 mk2 is an amazing camera. As soon as it's in stock here I will buy it.

The Image Accelerator Unit is nothing but a co-processor. Noise Reduction is only a stage - it's doing a lot of other things, like optical black computations, pixel mapping... moving those back to the PRIME processor would likely slow it down.

With everyone else applying heavier NR on their RAW files, I guess Pentax has no option of skipping it, I'm afraid. I'm happy if they don't overdo it - they didn't, so far.

[Serkevan]

The Image Accelerator Unit is nothing but a co-processor. Noise Reduction is only a stage - it's doing a lot of other things, like optical black computations, pixel mapping... moving those back to the PRIME processor would likely slow it down.

With everyone else applying heavier NR on their RAW files, I guess Pentax has no option of skipping it, I'm afraid. I'm happy if they don't overdo it - they didn't, so far.

As long as Pentax do not go overboard I'll be happy. Everything else is work taken off of my back.

[RobA_Oz]

It's meant to pierce.

Sorry – Australian cultural reference (Crocodile Dundee).

[Wheatfield]

I have seen high iso low light files from cameras. It does. Not saying it's a huge difference. But there is a difference!

I suspect what you were seeing is exactly the same as what I saw when I compared files from the two cameras, which was noise reduction, which is, admittedly, easy to mistake for wiping of detail. The more extreme the situation, the more noise there will be, with the consequence of more noise reduction.
This is not removal of detail. This is reducing noise in parts of the image with no detail to begin with.

[LeeRunge]

yes, I'm amazed at the photos being posted on iPhone photography forums with the new iPhone cameras. Those iPhones are pretty expensive (> $1000 USD), and people seem to buy new expensive iPhones every 2-4 years, which surprises me. I keep my iPhones for 8-10 years (!) and prefer to spend more money on my DSLR equipment. But I'm in the tiny minority in this, I see...
Prior to the iPhone 11 and 12 super-cameras (and the new Google-platform smartphone cameras), I was thinking that Pentax had more of a chance getting spill-over photography fans who find smartphone cameras to be "not enough", but with the lastest iPhone12, it's getting harder to see many iPhone photographers going for DSLRs for the first time.

They are expensive outright but you can get one with the right combo of promotions/trade/contract term that brings them down to a few hundred dollars. I typically keep mine 3+ years and generally switch the phone because I'm getting a more competitive carrier contract. I also use my phones heavily for large PDF's so having the more powerful processors greatly increases performance on 1500+ page documents that I use often for work in the field and iphone is way more convenient than lugging a laptop everywhere. A lot of the reason people are switching 2-4 years is to keep the trade value toward the next phone. For example, mine was worth 100 dollars more than what it's MSRP was when new for trade. And I didn't pay MSRP due to contract promotions when I bought that phone so many are probably like me and gaming the combo's on deals to make these 1000+ phones more like 200-300 dollar phones that you keep 3 years. So 100 a year for a state of the art hand computer is totally reasonable I think.

I think ProRaw will actually introduce many to photo editing which may lead to interest in purchasing a DSLR or Mirrorless with different lenses and more into photography. Think of it as a JV league camera now. Some will want to play on the varsity team eventually. While the capability now is so near what full frame produces for general use that will be enough for anyone in it for casual images. Really only professionals and serious hobbyists/amateurs are all that's left for the ILC market. And you really don't need to update much with modern sensors barely making changes to the end result in the last 5 or more years.

I hope this K-3 iii is a giant leap for Pentax, I think sensor wise there isn't much improvement left anymore without computational techniques. I would really like to see the camera manufacturers leverage these extremely fast processors in phones with the camera body. Maybe a composite setting where the K-3 takes 25 shots for example then you USB-C connect to the phone where it can harness that processor through an APP and generate a "SuperRAW" or something similar to how apple processes that tiny sensor. I bet the results would be amazing. Slow but amazing. And it would be a huge advantage initially until others started doing that. It would be attractive to me to see them harness that processing power coupled with the superior sensor in the ILC bodys.

[reh321]

Even after NR is turned off, processing effect of the accelerator unit is clearly evident!

Right, the 'accelerator' significantly improves both DR and color without more effort on my part.
Exactly like Kodachrome, I can concentrate on the parts that cannot be automation, and leave expertly-designed automation do the parts that automation can do.

[reh321]

I have seen high iso, low light, raw files from the k-1 mk2. It smears a lot of detail. Compared it to my friend's k-1. The k-1 has more details. It doesn't look artificial either.

I shoot lots of pictures of railroad locomotives with my KP.
The small writing is exactly where it should be, and I have not seen any smearing of details.

[Wheatfield]

yes, I'm amazed at the photos being posted on iPhone photography forums with the new iPhone cameras. Those iPhones are pretty expensive (> $1000 USD), and people seem to buy new expensive iPhones every 2-4 years, which surprises me. I keep my iPhones for 8-10 years (!) and prefer to spend more money on my DSLR equipment. But I'm in the tiny minority in this, I see...
Prior to the iPhone 11 and 12 super-cameras (and the new Google-platform smartphone cameras), I was thinking that Pentax had more of a chance getting spill-over photography fans who find smartphone cameras to be "not enough", but with the lastest iPhone12, it's getting harder to see many iPhone photographers going for DSLRs for the first time.

This is what is causing big problems in the camera industry. Cell phone cameras are getting better and better. They have wiped out the consumer P&S market, now they are going after the bridge camera/ entry level DSLR market.
The companies that are getting beaten up the worst are the big three, Nikon, Canon and Sony, as their business model is based on huge volume sales of low end products.
That market is in free fall.
The companies that are less affected are the ones that are less dependent on high volume sales, such as Pentax.
If you are still wondering why all these camera companies seem to be going upscale, now you know why. They are merely following their market.

[mirceattl]

I hope this K-3 iii is a giant leap for Pentax, I think sensor wise there isn't much improvement left anymore without computational techniques. I would really like to see the camera manufacturers leverage these extremely fast processors in phones with the camera body.

I also think there's not much room for improvement on the sensor side, so it's interesting to see what the approach is going to be for next APS-C cameras.