[MMVIII]

Aren't you contradicting yourself now? Earlier, you said:

I was about to explain to you what magnification does to illumination, but it seems you do understand how it works.

FWIW, the increase in magnification relative to the Pentax KP, to pick an example they actually had on hand during the presentation, works out to about 10%, or a 22% dilution of light.

If we assume that the "nearly 10% brighter" is on top of the original 22% brighter to compensate for the magnification, we end up with a figure of "nearly 35%" brighter for the overall viewfinder image relative to the Pentax KP. This is starting to get a little hard to believe.

If, instead, we assume the "nearly 10% brighter" does not consider magnification in this way, then, yes, you get a viewfinder image that is about 10% dimmer per unit area, but the overall image you see in the viewfinder still contains the "nearly 10%" more light.

I suppose we could ask the question, what helps you perceive and compose the scene more, adding magnification, or adding brightness, and to what extent, each? I suspect someone has worked this out, and I also suspect the engineers know the answer.

Now, the line between a thorough analysis and overthinking some simple sentences is, no question, very thin.

The source:
Ricoh-imaging video 2020.07.22, Dialogue of Journalist and Engineer

"B: When I stay in a dimly lit indoor setting, I can more easily tell the differences.
But I wonder what would happen if I go out into brighter outdoor setting?
A: I suspect that you may not see much difference in the viewfinder brightness in an outdoor setting.
Compared to the KP, however, this viewfinder is nearly 10% brighter.
B: Does it make the image brighter?
A: Yes, I believe so. ..."

It is a colloquial dialogue, though, I would not take this too literal.

I would assume this answer was given to dispel concerns that a new larger viewfinder might be in fact darker than the old one. We might not see much difference in the viewfinder, in fact it is something like10% brighter than the KP. I would not take that as the sum of a calculation of total light on matte screen area, if we take note that it just does not seem to appear darker after all.

---

Last edited by MMVIII; 11-18-2020 at 06:29 AM.

[JPT]

There was double-page interview with the K-3 III development team in the November issue of Nippon Camera magazine. They talked quite a lot about the viewfinder.

In short, they did not specifically mention the brightness of the viewfinder in terms of comparing it to the viewfinders in other cameras. However, Wakashiro-san talks about the typical compromises involved in increasing the size of the viewfinder, and mentions that the new viewfinder overcomes this. The viewfinder could not have been realized before because the material was not available. Their objective from the beginning was to create a viewfinder for APS-C that is the equal of full frame cameras. It doesn't sound like there is a decrease in brightness compared to prior models.

He also talks about the extreme difficulty of manufacturing the prisms. At the beginning, they were only getting only one acceptable prism for every 100 they tried to manufacture. The problem was that they could not keep consistency from the left to the right. This is likely to explain in part the higher than expected price and possibly the long development time.

The result of this effort is a viewfinder that makes it easier to see the point of focus. It also better for judging the quality of bokeh from the lens. Finally, he mentioned that it has the best ever rendition of color, surpassing even the K-1 in that regard.

This is on p.96-97 of Nippon Camera November 2020 issue.

[Larrymc]

The simple fact is, a brighter viewfinder - however much brighter it may be - will enable use earlier on at dawn and later at dusk, increasing available shooting time, as well as improving usability in otherwise poorly-lit indoor and outdoor conditions.

Sounds like a sinister plot by those devious Pentax engineers and designers to cause us to wear out our cameras quicker by shooting more and longer so they could pad their bottom line with more camera sales. I see their game!

[mlt]

Sounds like a sinister plot by those devious Pentax engineers and designers to cause us to wear out our cameras quicker by shooting more and longer so they could pad their bottom line with more camera sales. I see their game!

That explains the iso settings into the millions, more pushes to get us to use our Pentaxs in ever dimming light and roaming the woods in the dark - ahh, a new conspiracy to worry about

[Breakfastographer]

Now, the line between a thorough analysis and overthinking some simple sentences is, no question, very thin.

The source:
Ricoh-imaging video 2020.07.22, Dialogue of Journalist and Engineer

"B: When I stay in a dimly lit indoor setting, I can more easily tell the differences.
But I wonder what would happen if I go out into brighter outdoor setting?
A: I suspect that you may not see much difference in the viewfinder brightness in an outdoor setting.
Compared to the KP, however, this viewfinder is nearly 10% brighter.
B: Does it make the image brighter?
A: Yes, I believe so. ..."

It is a colloquial dialogue, though, I would not take this too literal.

I would assume this answer was given to dispel concerns that a new larger viewfinder might be in fact darker than the old one. We might not see much difference in the viewfinder, in fact it is something like10% brighter than the KP. I would not take that as the sum of a calculation of total light on matte screen area, if we take note that it just does not seem to appear darker after all.

Exactly. That is the interpretation that is believable and makes sense.

---------- Post added 11-18-20 at 07:57 AM ----------

The result of this effort is a viewfinder that makes it easier to see the point of focus. It also better for judging the quality of bokeh from the lens. Finally, he mentioned that it has the best ever rendition of color, surpassing even the K-1 in that regard.

Now, just to clarify, colour rendition in the viewfinder, colour rendition on the sensor, in JPEG, ...?

---------- Post added 11-18-20 at 08:06 AM ----------

Sounds like a sinister plot by those devious Pentax engineers and designers to cause us to wear out our cameras quicker by shooting more and longer so they could pad their bottom line with more camera sales. I see their game!

Based on my experience of having never worn out a single shutter unit in a Pentax camera, they'd be giving themselves a tough challenge.

[reh321]

would assume this answer was given to dispel concerns that a new larger viewfinder might be in fact darker than the old one. We might not see much difference in the viewfinder, in fact it is something like10% brighter than the KP. I would not take that as the sum of a calculation of total light on matte screen area, if we take note that it just does not seem to appear darker after all.

As a KP user, I would hope that the new viewfinder is brighter in dimness. Under dim conditions I do sometimes switch to LV simply so I can see better.

[BROO]

Maybe there is some kind of selectable translucent mirror technology here for improved AF performance?
The brighter viewfinder might be to compensate for light loss when in translucent mode.

[stevebrot]

Clear enough to me, unless we verse into conspiracy theories.

This is, after all, the Twilight Zone...errrr...the rumor section...


Steve

[stevebrot]

That should nudge the "Flat Prism-ers" into action

Oh....that is subtle!


Steve

[Zygonyx]

There was double-page interview with the K-3 III development team in the November issue of Nippon Camera magazine. They talked quite a lot about the viewfinder.

In short, they did not specifically mention the brightness of the viewfinder in terms of comparing it to the viewfinders in other cameras. However, Wakashiro-san talks about the typical compromises involved in increasing the size of the viewfinder, and mentions that the new viewfinder overcomes this. The viewfinder could not have been realized before because the material was not available. Their objective from the beginning was to create a viewfinder for APS-C that is the equal of full frame cameras. It doesn't sound like there is a decrease in brightness compared to prior models.

He also talks about the extreme difficulty of manufacturing the prisms. At the beginning, they were only getting only one acceptable prism for every 100 they tried to manufacture. The problem was that they could not keep consistency from the left to the right. This is likely to explain in part the higher than expected price and possibly the long development time.

The result of this effort is a viewfinder that makes it easier to see the point of focus. It also better for judging the quality of bokeh from the lens. Finally, he mentioned that it has the best ever rendition of color, surpassing even the K-1 in that regard.

This is on p.96-97 of Nippon Camera November 2020 issue.

Sounds great !

[Larrymc]

That explains the iso settings into the millions, more pushes to get us to use our Pentaxs in ever dimming light and roaming the woods in the dark - ahh, a new conspiracy to worry about

That's my story and I'm Stickin to it!

[Breakfastographer]

Indeed, it's pretty obvious in this one. Thank you @Breakfastographer.

You are welcome.

[StiffLegged]

Korejanai K-x?

Aaarrghhhhhh! Quick, the eye bleach!!

[Not a Number]

Maybe there is some kind of selectable translucent mirror technology here for improved AF performance?
The brighter viewfinder might be to compensate for light loss when in translucent mode.

Or semi-silvered mirrors for the hypothetical hybrid screen

[The Squirrel Mafia]

All I can say is that I'll definitely be taking black if I buy this.

Call me gimmicky or whatever, but I would buy this in yellow, red, blue, white, or any other color, but silver.