[Breakfastographer]

They already saved the money by dropping GPS.

A gps device in a cellphone is about 10$ of license fees. And maybe 1$ for Glonass and 1$ for the chinese Baidu. But sold at 200$ and does the US GPS only. IMO totally overpriced.

But do those devices have the same accuracy as the Pentax version? Iirc, for AstroTracer, accuracy would have to be down to just a few meters, or it wouldn't be able to easily carry out the calibration.

Since the decision of Pentax is against the GPS I got myself a demo model of the K3 Mark II in near mint condition after a japanese guy refused to sell me a new one below 1850$ (plus 24% of import duties)... when it becomes true that the retail price for the K3 Mark III would close to 2000 Euro (1800 pounds, 2400 USD) why sould people buy the K3 mark III when they can get a body of K1 mark II with similar price, but with GPS? We all know that from a technical perspecitve the selling point of the K3 mark III would be the noise-reduced sensor but it's available in the K-P already.

The phrase "we all know" is a dangerous one to use... in this case, I would point out that the K-3 III will be able to do 12fps at full resolution with its mechanical shutter - that's only just below the 16fps of the Canon EOS 1D X Mark III, which I believe is market-leading in terms of mechanical shutter speed. To complement that, buffer performance far outclasses the KP. Ultimately, the K-3 III's performance is mostly limited by the decision to use SD cards.

Furthermore, where other manufacturers simply hit the wall with not being able to improve IBIS much beyond 6.5 stops, Pentax/Ricoh decided to tackle the causes of camera shake, and have given the K-3 III a leaf switch shutter button and new mirror action to reduce shake.

I suspect we will in due time see a Pentax full frame camera that carries these improvements, with a launch price that's an appropriate amount above the K-3 III's. But that might still take two years or more. But then you also state further down that you don't want the K-1 II anyway, so I'm not sure what that excursion was about in the first place.

And despite of the 1 mio ISO thing... useless. Because the real good stuff isn't sold to consumers and the Sony sensor does NOT reach the level of noiselessy as some experimental models from Olympus do, and these field tests were done in 2014.

I don't remember those - can you give us a link?

GPS drains battery, yes, but for regular pics not need the GPS info in the Exif data except you are braindead and don't remember where your pics were taken.

Strong words there. What if you remember that it was Paris, but not which street corner? Most tourists probably wouldn't, 10 or 20 years later. Or, same idea with a wildlife reserve.

But for Astrotracer this is vital, aid I am not going to pay 200$ for the O-GPS1 and I don't want the full frame K1 mark II because the full frame thing is something for people who hoard money somewhere for the next "must have" thing.

Sure, $200 is $200, but you might pay that kind of money for a tripod or a bag (or more). It'll be around 10% of the launch price of the K-3 III.

I'm not saying that I know for sure that there won't be another way to do AstroTracer on the K-3 III, but even if the O-GPS1 were required, it sounds like a rather low barrier to entry, less than most decent astro lenses, for instance! Much less if you want the designated one from Pentax (DA* 11-18mm).

[reh321]

Strong words there. What if you remember that it was Paris, but not which street corner? Most tourists probably wouldn't, 10 or 20 years later. Or, same idea with a wildlife reserve.

This is precisely what I mean by "perfection".
If it really matters, the photographer can make a note of some sort - on a piece or paper or on his/her iPhone.

added: In the film age, I would have written the exact address in my notebook if the address had mattered.
Admittedly, I do have a photo from 1975 - taken in the Greenfield Village living history museum - of a structure that I cannot find now, but, honestly, I don't think it matters.

[Larrymc]

This is precisely what I mean by "perfection".
If it really matters, the photographer can make a note of some sort - on a piece or paper or on his/her iPhone.

But, But, what if????

[PDL]

You did what you had to do during that time, my reference was to the OP's statement the he was an "Old School" photographer.

So I have been shooting, developing (B&W and color), buying film on 100ft rolls and loading my own cassettes for nearly 50 years and that does not qualify as "Old School"?

---------- Post added 12-04-20 at 04:43 PM ----------

Strong words there. What if you remember that it was Paris, but not which street corner? Most tourists probably wouldn't, 10 or 20 years later. Or, same idea with a wildlife reserve.

Well, from my NZ trip in 2006 - I know it is Christchurch - but the building/street corner is just not the same since 2011. (Look up what happened to Christchurch in 2011 - you will get the idea)

---------- Post added 12-04-20 at 04:48 PM ----------

This is precisely what I mean by "perfection".
If it really matters, the photographer can make a note of some sort - on a piece or paper or on his/her iPhone.

added: In the film age, I would have written the exact address in my notebook if the address had mattered.
Admittedly, I do have a photo from 1975 - taken in the Greenfield Village living history museum - of a structure that I cannot find now, but, honestly, I don't think it matters.

Not if you are on a bus (public transportation) and you are in a city where you have no clue what the street is named. Keywording your images is a thing left to be done later. However, not knowing where you were is really frustrating.

I lived with a notebook for several decades and it really slowed down my efforts. If it does not matter to you, then I think you should take care in trivializing other peoples requirements/desires.

[reh321]

I lived with a notebook for several decades and it really slowed down my efforts. If it does not matter to you, then I think you should take care in trivializing other peoples requirements/desires.

“Old School” photography was slow and meticulous, and some of us have maintained the habits we learned fifty years ago.

My wife quickly became accustomed to a “5 minute photo stop” stretching out to half an hour or more.

As I have already said, if a person needs GPS, and s/he is not willing to add a O-GPS1 to her/his kit, s/he should purchase a camera that provides it, even if it means changing brands - complaints that GPS and/or flippy LCD are not included in current {incomplete} K-3iii specs is becoming very very old.

[dbs]

T he first post leads to 12 photos of the camera what the does it have to do if you use or not use a written notepad.
As usual 25 pages of drivel

Get a life people

[shiner]

I just simply won't buy it and keep shooting with one of two nice KP's !

If I have some sort of windfall, I'll buy it. Would be great for action photography like airshows and such, and most anything not requiring a tripod or shooting at extreme angles. But I agree, my 2 KP's are very satisfying... and they have nice, sturdy flip screens.

[ojutan]

But do those devices have the same accuracy as the Pentax version? Iirc, for AstroTracer, accuracy would have to be down to just a few meters, or it wouldn't be able to easily carry out the calibration.


The phrase "we all know" is a dangerous one to use... in this case, I would point out that the K-3 III will be able to do 12fps at full resolution with its mechanical shutter - that's only just below the 16fps of the Canon EOS 1D X Mark III, which I believe is market-leading in terms of mechanical shutter speed. To complement that, buffer performance far outclasses the KP. Ultimately, the K-3 III's performance is mostly limited by the decision to use SD cards.

Furthermore, where other manufacturers simply hit the wall with not being able to improve IBIS much beyond 6.5 stops, Pentax/Ricoh decided to tackle the causes of camera shake, and have given the K-3 III a leaf switch shutter button and new mirror action to reduce shake.

I suspect we will in due time see a Pentax full frame camera that carries these improvements, with a launch price that's an appropriate amount above the K-3 III's. But that might still take two years or more. But then you also state further down that you don't want the K-1 II anyway, so I'm not sure what that excursion was about in the first place.


I don't remember those - can you give us a link?



Strong words there. What if you remember that it was Paris, but not which street corner? Most tourists probably wouldn't, 10 or 20 years later. Or, same idea with a wildlife reserve.


Sure, $200 is $200, but you might pay that kind of money for a tripod or a bag (or more). It'll be around 10% of the launch price of the K-3 III.

I'm not saying that I know for sure that there won't be another way to do AstroTracer on the K-3 III, but even if the O-GPS1 were required, it sounds like a rather low barrier to entry, less than most decent astro lenses, for instance! Much less if you want the designated one from Pentax (DA* 11-18mm).

-> The original pentax information page states that it can show GPS information in play mode, and there isn't any GPS button on it. But no astrotracer mentioned there.

Progress report on PENTAX's new APS-C-format digital SLR flagship camera?RICOH IMAGING

By the way all you know for calculating sensor movement is where exactly you are, and the inclination angle to the horizon of the camera and the angle to north (or south) pole. Or with other words it needs to know where the north star is.
Without knowing that you must do the math, know the magnetic pole difference from the rotationary pole and that's where you need the GPS for. It could be that this is the expensive part, and I don't know if the O-GPS1 does these calculations or if it's built in into the camera.

There are plenty of astrotracer from dyi makers, the cheaper ones demand you align them to the polar star, then you automatically get the rotation direction of stars. The cheapest motor driven astrotracer is about 300$, there is a company in Austria that imports and sells it.
Auto aligned devices are at 800-1000$

And about the 1,600.000 ISO

1.6 million ISO! The Pentax K-3 Mark III has been announced | Digital Camera World

but that's not a fact... just somebody heard something.

and that's an intermediary statement of Pentax about 1.6 mio ISO

Progress report on PENTAX's new APS-C-format digital SLR flagship camera?RICOH IMAGING

The latest specs say it goes up to 160.000 not 1.6 mio but I believe for certain that this is just a limitation because higher iso means higher noise... and I am very sure that the new sensor can't beat a lab model of Olympus I had in my fingers, that did shoot 256K ISO images at a bonfire, with so less noise as the K50 does between 6400 and 12000.

The finaly specs are partially limited by software, but if it comes wiht GPS or not will be decided now (during design phase) and not market release...

[RobA_Oz]

T he first post leads to 12 photos of the camera what the does it have to do if you use or not use a written notepad.
As usual 25 pages of drivel

Get a life people

Go on. Tell us what you’re really thinking.

This is just some spare-time frivolity. Me, I’ve got more life than I can handle.

[BigMackCam]

I am very sure that the new sensor can't beat a lab model of Olympus I had in my fingers, that did shoot 256K ISO images at a bonfire, with so less noise as the K50 does between 6400 and 12000.

Unless you can provide the Olympus' raw files for us to examine, that's rather like sitting round the campfire, holding your arms out wide for effect and telling your fishing buddies "I swear, the fish was THIS big!". I mean no disrespect when I tell you I'll believe it when I see that fish for myself.

The KP arguably offered best-in-class APS-C image quality the moment it was released, with significant improvement over the K-3 / K-3II at mid-to-high ISO settings... and it's still extremely competitive now. There's every reason to believe the K-3III will improve further on that, and not just in usable high ISO capability, but - given the clear statements made in Ricoh's product videos thus far - at base and low ISO too. Whether it can live up to the fabled Olympus bonfire performance, we'll probably never know... but most of us here are only really interested in what Pentax offers; not how it performs compared to another brand's offerings.

[Kunzite]

The latest specs say it goes up to 160.000 not 1.6 mio

Nope, it's definitely 1,600,000.
160,000 is ridiculously low, as the KP can go as high as 819,200 - the K-3 III goes one stop higher, not more than 2 stops lower!

[ffking]

Agreed. Maximum ISO on almost every DSLR and mirrorless camera I know of is useless. However, it generally indicates that the ISO levels one or two stops below are potentially usable.

Also, as somebody on YouTube was pointing out (I forget who ), very high ISOs reflect a sensor output that helps you see in the dark in live view for framing purposes - the actual exposure ISO can then be scaled back using the shutter speed dial. Particularly useful if the longest exposure you can set is 30s (although less so if you can do 20 mins like the K-1 in live view).

[BigMackCam]

Also, as somebody on YouTube was pointing out (I forget who ), very high ISOs reflect a sensor output that helps you see in the dark in live view for framing purposes - the actual exposure ISO can then be scaled back using the shutter speed dial. Particularly useful if the longest exposure you can set is 30s (although less so if you can do 20 mins like the K-1 in live view).

That's quite clever... I'd never thought of using Live View and high ISO for low light composition, then using a lower ISO and slower shutter speed for the shot. Very cool for night shots

[reh321]

Unless you can provide the Olympus' raw files for us to examine, that's rather like sitting round the campfire, holding your arms out wide for effect and telling your fishing buddies "I swear, the fish was THIS big!". I mean no disrespect when I tell you I'll believe it when I see that fish for myself.

The KP arguably offered best-in-class APS-C image quality the moment it was released, with significant improvement over the K-3 / K-3II at mid-to-high ISO settings... and it's still extremely competitive now. There's every reason to believe the K-3III will improve further on that, and not just in usable high ISO capability, but - given the clear statements made in Ricoh's product videos thus far - at base and low ISO too. Whether it can live up to the fabled Olympus bonfire performance, we'll probably never know... but most of us here are only really interested in what Pentax offers; not how it performs compared to another brand's offerings.

This is probably a good place to remind everyone that an astronomy site did review the K-1ii.
Pentax K-1 Mark II Astrophotography Review – Lonely Speck

To summarize their findings, they did have a personal preference to have the option of turning off the 'accelerator", but they did not find any "star eater" behavior and, as a personal note, since 'accelerator' behavior is not detected below ISO 600, one could operate the camera at ISO 400, and then use "invariate ISO" to get the equivalent of higher ISO with "PP".

[reh321]

That's quite clever... I'd never thought of using Live View and high ISO for low light composition, then dropping the shutter speed. Very cool for night shots

I do use LV the few times I use my KP to shoot in near darkness, both for composition and to manually focus the shot.