Thom Predictions Don't Look Good for Pentax

Mindflux · 11-11-2008, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by rparmar

In my experience Apples crash and require rebooting etc. far more often than Windows XP. Daily I am in an environment with dozens of Apple computers. I was all set to buy one three months ago, but after seeing how unstable they are I've completely changed my mind.

There's something clearly wrong here. I've had my iMac a year now, and I've had precisely 1 "Grey Curtain" (Kernel Panic) and that was due to running Parallels Desktop with XP trying to update a blackberry pearl to the latest OS.

Not once outside of that have I had a crash or a need to reboot to 'fix things'. As a network administrator in my professional life I see XP and Windows 2000 suffer from a long list of problems, some more than others depending on the hardware the machine consists of. I am trying my best to avoid Vista all together and hopefully jump to Windows 7 pending it's not another large pile of dung.

Even better: Mac simply doesn't have any virus' for OSX yet, there's a few Trojans running about but unless you haphazardly start punching in your admin password without checking to see what's asking for it you aren't likely to get it.

EVEN BETTER YET: NO SPYWARE OR ADWARE! Granted safe browsing and using a browser that does not have ActiveX virtually eliminates these pests... OSX TOTALLY ELIMINATES THEM.

This is coming from a long time PC user (myself) that switched a mere 13 months ago. I've enjoyed my Apple experience so much that I've purchased one for my fiancee. My brother and father also now run iMac and my mother wants an Apple notebook for christmas. They all trust my opinion when I tell them what I think is good and what I think is not. So far they all seem to agree that the whole Apple OS is quite pleasant and crash free.

ll_coffee_lP · 11-11-2008, 07:34 PM

My Pc works fine....as do my Pentax cameras. I don't need an iMac, nor do I need a Canikony.

c[_]

Wheatfield · 11-11-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by cateto

In short: market share is not the only important thing in business. Ask Mercedes. Ask Porsche. Ask BMW. Or ask Apple.

And I wholeheartedly expect that Pentax/Hoya will give the same answers as the companies mentioned above can give today.

Sure, ask the high end car makers about market share and niche markets. Pentax isn't playing in those circles.
If you want to make an automotive comparison, Pentax would be closer to the Chevrolet division.
Pentax has inexplicably chosen to compete in a part of the market where market share is all important.

schmik · 11-11-2008, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Mindflux

I've enjoyed my Apple experience so much that....

Isn't that what it is all about?

Does anyone here know if pentax actually wants to compete against Canikon? I don't.
Maybe they just want loyal users that enjoy using their cameras.

I seem to think that this may be the case as they have no 'pro' body. If they wanted to make one they could. Their cameras are very competitive to their rival products. Do you think that their engineers aren't capable of making a body (that costs $4000) with a heap of FPS and FF sensor? Of course they can, but do they want to?

mike

leadbelly · 11-11-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by rparmar

As for rebooting, I simply never see blue screens unless I'm foolish enough to play bleeding edge games with the wrong settings. Every day I watch mac apps crash.

I'm a mac user (no PC's in the house, 5 macbooks and a macbook pro). And I agree. Everyday, a mac app crashes on me. I am currently saving to set up a killer PC gaming system since my last PC died (it died last year, after about 7 years of faithful service and crashed only twice if I recall correctly.)

I love mac for its simple interface and user friendly OS. I love PC for its sheer power and bang for buck. For everyday work, simple editing, sorting of photos, I use a mac. For the heavy duty stuff, PC is the way. IMHO.

cateto · 11-12-2008, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Sure, ask the high end car makers about market share and niche markets. Pentax isn't playing in those circles.
If you want to make an automotive comparison, Pentax would be closer to the Chevrolet division.
Pentax has inexplicably chosen to compete in a part of the market where market share is all important.

Well, Pentax is in a period of transformation. The takeover of Hoya means a strong economic base. And in my opinion, looking at the last releases (K10D/K20D/K-m), they are focusing on their core market: photodogs and serious photography lovers. Those for whom a dSLR is more than a toy for gifts, or a camera to use every six months. The design of those cameras goes in the right direction, addressing the right problems in the right manner. And from what I read, it seems that photography lovers are realizing about it. If I am right, it is a good foundation for the upcoming years.

After all, Pentax (as any other brand) needs a line with clear features that differentiate its product from those of competing brands. And Pentax as a longtime prestige as serious company in photography, no gadgets or whistles, and the models mentioned continue that direction. The unbelievable compatibility with their huge legacy of lenses is another great point. And most of all, the QUALITY in pictures is what counts.

All of that looks promising in my opinion, because Pentax is focusing on the important stuff. And that is why, for instance in my case, I spent months and months reading about digital dSLR, and after getting loads of information, I decided to buy a K10D, and not a canikon. I guess many other people think like me: still there is a significant amount of guys out there who take photography seriously and won't buy the cameras that are best sellers, only because they are best sellers.

Class A · 11-12-2008, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by tranq78

For 2009 I predict...

LOL!

Originally posted by rparmar

Through it all they have convinced the public they are "innovative" though they stole the mouse, stole the windowing interface, etc.

Jobs has always been upfront about the windows interface originating at Xerox Parc (and that he should have stayed longer to adopt Smalltalk as well).

Microsoft were the ones that really stole the windows interface and had the lawsuit against them.

Apples do some things better than PCs but they always crash when I'm around so they are no good for me.

creampuff · 11-12-2008, 02:26 AM

Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing...
I've been a print consultant for a long time and the clients I deal with who use Macs, myself included, have very rarely encountered Macs crashing. If it did, it was recoverable with no data loss. The stability of the Mac OS is unquestioned, even as I write this on my ageing Powerbook, which has never encountered a crash.

Class A · 11-12-2008, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing...

I know what I saw with my own two eyes. My friend's Mac froze a couple of times -- of course it never happened any other time -- a colleague's Mac in England froze when he converted a file for me, and a current colleague's Mac needed a reboot when I was in his room. Not enough data to indicate instability in general but it does happen and I've seen my share.

Kunzite · 11-12-2008, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by regken

This is exactly why I didn't jump right up with my prediction on your "Put your money where your mouth is" thread. I don't expect a new body announcement until Nov. 2009 with a release near PMA 2010. The next 12 months should be very stagnant as far as any new products go.

And I believe you are wrong about this. Very wrong

benjikan · 11-12-2008, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing...
I've been a print consultant for a long time and the clients I deal with who use Macs, myself included, have very rarely encountered Macs crashing. If it did, it was recoverable with no data loss. The stability of the Mac OS is unquestioned, even as I write this on my ageing Powerbook, which has never encountered a crash.

Why even use the word Crash next to a Mac. I cannot remember the last time my Mac cra............................................................................ù@ù@ù@
@@ù@ùù@@ùù@ù@ù@ùù@ù@ùù@ùù@ùù@ù@ùùù@ù@ùùùù@ù@ù@ù!!!!!!!

vinzer · 11-12-2008, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by benjikan

Why even use the word Crash next to a Mac. I cannot remember the last time my Mac cra............................................................................ù@ù@ù@
@@ù@ùù@@ùù@ù@ù@ùù@ù@ùù@ùù@ùù@ù@ùùù@ù@ùùùù@ù@ù@ù!!!!!!!

Aw man, that cracked me up. Good one.

I haven't had overly extensive experience with Macs, but the times I did use them, they didn't crash on me. Then again, I wasn't doing anything overly taxing on those Macs.

It's the same with my much more extensive use of Windows XP. As long as you don't overburden the limits of your PC specs (say, 100 open YouTube tabs in Firefox on a 512MB-RAM system), there's a great chance you'll rarely encounter a crash.

Of course, it's a whole different story with Windows 98, especially Windows ME. The Blue Screen Of Death didn't become a cult legend for nothing.

Wheatfield · 11-12-2008, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by vinzer

Aw man, that cracked me up. Good one.

I haven't had overly extensive experience with Macs, but the times I did use them, they didn't crash on me. Then again, I wasn't doing anything overly taxing on those Macs.

It's the same with my much more extensive use of Windows XP. As long as you don't overburden the limits of your PC specs (say, 100 open YouTube tabs in Firefox on a 512MB-RAM system), there's a great chance you'll rarely encounter a crash.

Of course, it's a whole different story with Windows 98, especially Windows ME. The Blue Screen Of Death didn't become a cult legend for nothing.

The guy who built several computers for me always did lots of research into components before doing a build. The Win98 era saw tons of upstart board manufacturers getting into the computer business, and if you didn't check things out carefully, it was easy to get hardware incompatibilities that would cause the OS to crash.
I believe the term he used was "DLL Hell"
The major advantage Mac has in this area is that Mac has a very small number of component makers that they will deal with, and everything is designed from the ground up to be compatible.
My Win98 box never had problems with crashes, but it was built by someone who wasn't buying boards from someone who was building them in his basement.

I have heard of crash problems with the Leopard OS, so perhaps Mac is finally learning that mass appeal computers aren't as easy to build.

Conan · 11-12-2008, 07:27 AM

I'm from the Philippines and while it's a small market, Pentax here is the number three DSLR camera next to Nikon and Canon. Sony and Olympus DSLR's are just bit players here.

Gooshin · 11-12-2008, 09:14 AM

this is not a statement, this is a question.

How many world known corporations run their entire network on Mac's as opposed to PC's?

Those that have never seen a Mac crash, is it a single mac, or is it 30 of them put together with incompetent users doing stupid things?

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11-11-2008, 05:55 PM	#46
Mindflux Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 150	Originally posted by rparmar In my experience Apples crash and require rebooting etc. far more often than Windows XP. Daily I am in an environment with dozens of Apple computers. I was all set to buy one three months ago, but after seeing how unstable they are I've completely changed my mind. There's something clearly wrong here. I've had my iMac a year now, and I've had precisely 1 "Grey Curtain" (Kernel Panic) and that was due to running Parallels Desktop with XP trying to update a blackberry pearl to the latest OS. Not once outside of that have I had a crash or a need to reboot to 'fix things'. As a network administrator in my professional life I see XP and Windows 2000 suffer from a long list of problems, some more than others depending on the hardware the machine consists of. I am trying my best to avoid Vista all together and hopefully jump to Windows 7 pending it's not another large pile of dung. Even better: Mac simply doesn't have any virus' for OSX yet, there's a few Trojans running about but unless you haphazardly start punching in your admin password without checking to see what's asking for it you aren't likely to get it. EVEN BETTER YET: NO SPYWARE OR ADWARE! Granted safe browsing and using a browser that does not have ActiveX virtually eliminates these pests... OSX TOTALLY ELIMINATES THEM. This is coming from a long time PC user (myself) that switched a mere 13 months ago. I've enjoyed my Apple experience so much that I've purchased one for my fiancee. My brother and father also now run iMac and my mother wants an Apple notebook for christmas. They all trust my opinion when I tell them what I think is good and what I think is not. So far they all seem to agree that the whole Apple OS is quite pleasant and crash free.

11-11-2008, 07:34 PM	#47
ll_coffee_lP Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,972	My Pc works fine....as do my Pentax cameras. I don't need an iMac, nor do I need a Canikony. c[_]

11-11-2008, 07:43 PM	#48
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by cateto In short: market share is not the only important thing in business. Ask Mercedes. Ask Porsche. Ask BMW. Or ask Apple. And I wholeheartedly expect that Pentax/Hoya will give the same answers as the companies mentioned above can give today. Sure, ask the high end car makers about market share and niche markets. Pentax isn't playing in those circles. If you want to make an automotive comparison, Pentax would be closer to the Chevrolet division. Pentax has inexplicably chosen to compete in a part of the market where market share is all important.

11-11-2008, 08:15 PM	#49
schmik Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney Aus Photos: Gallery Posts: 527	Originally posted by Mindflux I've enjoyed my Apple experience so much that.... Isn't that what it is all about? Does anyone here know if pentax actually wants to compete against Canikon? I don't. Maybe they just want loyal users that enjoy using their cameras. I seem to think that this may be the case as they have no 'pro' body. If they wanted to make one they could. Their cameras are very competitive to their rival products. Do you think that their engineers aren't capable of making a body (that costs $4000) with a heap of FPS and FF sensor? Of course they can, but do they want to? mike

11-11-2008, 09:17 PM	#50
leadbelly Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 597	Originally posted by rparmar As for rebooting, I simply never see blue screens unless I'm foolish enough to play bleeding edge games with the wrong settings. Every day I watch mac apps crash. I'm a mac user (no PC's in the house, 5 macbooks and a macbook pro). And I agree. Everyday, a mac app crashes on me. I am currently saving to set up a killer PC gaming system since my last PC died (it died last year, after about 7 years of faithful service and crashed only twice if I recall correctly.) I love mac for its simple interface and user friendly OS. I love PC for its sheer power and bang for buck. For everyday work, simple editing, sorting of photos, I use a mac. For the heavy duty stuff, PC is the way. IMHO.

11-12-2008, 01:30 AM	#51
cateto Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 189	Originally posted by Wheatfield Sure, ask the high end car makers about market share and niche markets. Pentax isn't playing in those circles. If you want to make an automotive comparison, Pentax would be closer to the Chevrolet division. Pentax has inexplicably chosen to compete in a part of the market where market share is all important. Well, Pentax is in a period of transformation. The takeover of Hoya means a strong economic base. And in my opinion, looking at the last releases (K10D/K20D/K-m), they are focusing on their core market: photodogs and serious photography lovers. Those for whom a dSLR is more than a toy for gifts, or a camera to use every six months. The design of those cameras goes in the right direction, addressing the right problems in the right manner. And from what I read, it seems that photography lovers are realizing about it. If I am right, it is a good foundation for the upcoming years. After all, Pentax (as any other brand) needs a line with clear features that differentiate its product from those of competing brands. And Pentax as a longtime prestige as serious company in photography, no gadgets or whistles, and the models mentioned continue that direction. The unbelievable compatibility with their huge legacy of lenses is another great point. And most of all, the QUALITY in pictures is what counts. All of that looks promising in my opinion, because Pentax is focusing on the important stuff. And that is why, for instance in my case, I spent months and months reading about digital dSLR, and after getting loads of information, I decided to buy a K10D, and not a canikon. I guess many other people think like me: still there is a significant amount of guys out there who take photography seriously and won't buy the cameras that are best sellers, only because they are best sellers.

11-12-2008, 01:46 AM	#52
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by tranq78 For 2009 I predict... LOL! Originally posted by rparmar Through it all they have convinced the public they are "innovative" though they stole the mouse, stole the windowing interface, etc. Jobs has always been upfront about the windows interface originating at Xerox Parc (and that he should have stayed longer to adopt Smalltalk as well). Microsoft were the ones that really stole the windows interface and had the lawsuit against them. Apples do some things better than PCs but they always crash when I'm around so they are no good for me.

11-12-2008, 02:26 AM	#53
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing... I've been a print consultant for a long time and the clients I deal with who use Macs, myself included, have very rarely encountered Macs crashing. If it did, it was recoverable with no data loss. The stability of the Mac OS is unquestioned, even as I write this on my ageing Powerbook, which has never encountered a crash.

11-12-2008, 02:37 AM	#54
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by creampuff Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing... I know what I saw with my own two eyes. My friend's Mac froze a couple of times -- of course it never happened any other time -- a colleague's Mac in England froze when he converted a file for me, and a current colleague's Mac needed a reboot when I was in his room. Not enough data to indicate instability in general but it does happen and I've seen my share.

11-12-2008, 02:52 AM	#55
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by regken This is exactly why I didn't jump right up with my prediction on your "Put your money where your mouth is" thread. I don't expect a new body announcement until Nov. 2009 with a release near PMA 2010. The next 12 months should be very stagnant as far as any new products go. And I believe you are wrong about this. Very wrong

11-12-2008, 03:23 AM	#56
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Originally posted by creampuff Hmmm, I always wonder when people mention Macs crashing... I've been a print consultant for a long time and the clients I deal with who use Macs, myself included, have very rarely encountered Macs crashing. If it did, it was recoverable with no data loss. The stability of the Mac OS is unquestioned, even as I write this on my ageing Powerbook, which has never encountered a crash. Why even use the word Crash next to a Mac. I cannot remember the last time my Mac cra............................................................................ù@ù@ù@ @@ù@ùù@@ùù@ù@ù@ùù@ù@ùù@ùù@ùù@ù@ùùù@ù@ùùùù@ù@ù@ù!!!!!!!

11-12-2008, 06:32 AM	#57
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	Originally posted by benjikan Why even use the word Crash next to a Mac. I cannot remember the last time my Mac cra............................................................................ù@ù@ù@ @@ù@ùù@@ùù@ù@ù@ùù@ù@ùù@ùù@ùù@ù@ùùù@ù@ùùùù@ù@ù@ù!!!!!!! Aw man, that cracked me up. Good one. I haven't had overly extensive experience with Macs, but the times I did use them, they didn't crash on me. Then again, I wasn't doing anything overly taxing on those Macs. It's the same with my much more extensive use of Windows XP. As long as you don't overburden the limits of your PC specs (say, 100 open YouTube tabs in Firefox on a 512MB-RAM system), there's a great chance you'll rarely encounter a crash. Of course, it's a whole different story with Windows 98, especially Windows ME. The Blue Screen Of Death didn't become a cult legend for nothing.

11-12-2008, 06:56 AM	#58
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by vinzer Aw man, that cracked me up. Good one. I haven't had overly extensive experience with Macs, but the times I did use them, they didn't crash on me. Then again, I wasn't doing anything overly taxing on those Macs. It's the same with my much more extensive use of Windows XP. As long as you don't overburden the limits of your PC specs (say, 100 open YouTube tabs in Firefox on a 512MB-RAM system), there's a great chance you'll rarely encounter a crash. Of course, it's a whole different story with Windows 98, especially Windows ME. The Blue Screen Of Death didn't become a cult legend for nothing. The guy who built several computers for me always did lots of research into components before doing a build. The Win98 era saw tons of upstart board manufacturers getting into the computer business, and if you didn't check things out carefully, it was easy to get hardware incompatibilities that would cause the OS to crash. I believe the term he used was "DLL Hell" The major advantage Mac has in this area is that Mac has a very small number of component makers that they will deal with, and everything is designed from the ground up to be compatible. My Win98 box never had problems with crashes, but it was built by someone who wasn't buying boards from someone who was building them in his basement. I have heard of crash problems with the Leopard OS, so perhaps Mac is finally learning that mass appeal computers aren't as easy to build.

11-12-2008, 07:27 AM	#59
Conan Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 99	I'm from the Philippines and while it's a small market, Pentax here is the number three DSLR camera next to Nikon and Canon. Sony and Olympus DSLR's are just bit players here.

11-12-2008, 09:14 AM	#60
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	this is not a statement, this is a question. How many world known corporations run their entire network on Mac's as opposed to PC's? Those that have never seen a Mac crash, is it a single mac, or is it 30 of them put together with incompetent users doing stupid things?