Pentax K-3 Mark III - First Hands-on

**hjoseph7** · 12-31-2020, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by repaap

I’m only worrying about weight when I’m at airport(not so much lately). And while K-1 is amazing image quality(I’v seen clear bump up in that after I got K-1 and when I have excellent lens on it. This is heavy stuff, but when I know what I’m getting, no problem. Only AF has been a problem.

That said. Camera is not much saving weight, it is lenses + body. But I’m happy to carry what ever if it works. I know that KP might be good. I had on one big gig K-1 + K-3 and this is still one gig I look back and think that it would have been more easy if K-3 would have had atleast as good AF if not better. I was surprised. I had for wide end 15-30 on my K-3 and K-1 with 70-200. And then I mixed some primes. I chose 15-30 instead of 16-50 because of faster AF -as I said weight does not bother me really, even in 3-5 hour event photography- but still focus was off in so may shots, like it has always been. K-1 still has this, luckily not so much as older gen Pentax. I actually think that aps-c + FF combo can be really functional. You can cover so well important focal lengths. And aps-c has that wider Dof advantage also.

---------- Post added 12-31-20 at 18:00 ----------

Yeah!

Only good thing about onboard flash is that you could do the ‘fill’ if you don’t have anything else. If someone does however go through the trouble and carry flashes with them(let alone 2)a trigger&receiver if it is needed won’t weight much. And on top of that you get the possibility to put your flash where you want.

I’v been in situation where my batteries did die from trigger. I triggered my elinchromes with fgz360II. I was in my own studio and did not have anyone breathing at my neck. Still. Not so creative solution, did the job, but even in my controlled space it was far from being perfect. I was also hoping to use that fgz360II for fill at one other place, but this is not the point.

Sure. Popup might save the day, but it is not ideal.

Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others...
Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable.

Attached Images

Last edited by hjoseph7; 12-31-2020 at 03:21 PM.

**BigMackCam** · 12-31-2020, 03:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by hjoseph7

Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. i have hundreds of others.
Keep in mind that you can turn down the flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable.

I don't think anyone doubts that in-camera flash can be useful on occasion... I've used it myself for fill-in against a bright background. It's just not a feature that's commonly included in advanced enthusiast and professional cameras, regardless of brand. It has limited utility so far as achieving professional results is concerned. No matter how much you drop the power of the in-camera flash, it points directly at the subject and simply isn't an attractive lighting option. It was dropped from the K-3II onwards on top-level Pentax bodies - but you can still have it with the KP or K-70, if you wish... or, add a small P-TTL flash unit such as the AF201FG to the K-3III. At least it has a tilting head, so you can bounce the light where possible...

Parallax · 12-31-2020, 03:27 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by hjoseph7

So you mean a pop-up flash would raise the price to 2.5K- 3k ?

That's not even close to what he said.

**hjoseph7** · 12-31-2020, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

That's not even close to what he said.

I think I will split before the pitchforks and sickles come out. Asta la vista baby, I got better things to do...

Last edited by hjoseph7; 12-31-2020 at 04:16 PM.

reh321 · 12-31-2020, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by hjoseph7

Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others...
Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable.

I'm not certain what ambient lighting conditions were nor why you felt that any flash was needed.
With the K-3iii, I believe users will be much less likely to resort to flash to compensate for the inadequacies of ambient light - to eliminate shadows will remain - but otherwise they will just photograph.
Today, we paid a short visit to our daughter and her husband - and I simply captured a couple of scenes using available light with my KP - with my K-30, I would have fiddled and fiddled with flash.

Dan Rentea · 12-31-2020, 05:50 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by hjoseph7

Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others...
Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable.

Sorry for being the one who tells you this directly, but none of the images you posted requires the pop-up flash or lots of time to edit them (if you wouldn't have used a flash).

For the second and for the latest image (the one with the horses and the one with the band), the pop-up flash didn't do anything to improve the images. On the band image which in my opinion is the keeper one from the 4 images you posted, the only thing that the pop-up flash did was to add even more light on the men's shirts making them stand out. It let the faces of the band members almost silhouettes. In those situations you just had to use exposure compensation to either make the entire band silhouettes, either to make the band stand out by overexposing 1 or 1.5 stops. In post you just had to bring down the highlights to add some details on the backlit area. Same on the image with the men on horses where you barely have only the first horse lighted but you lost details in both highlits and shadows areas and it's visible the lack of details in the sky, in the darker horse or in the bushes behind the men.

For the first and the third image the pop-up flash did exactly what a pop-up flash does, added a direct and harsh light. For the image with the woman walking I would have used a panning technique instead of a flash to avoid the harsh light on the subject, to avoid freezing and overexposing the snowflakes and to add some winter mood and motion to the image. Without the flash, I would have had also a background not as dark as you have mostly due to a lower ISO than the scene required.

And I say this because it's not an image where a low ISO would have been necessary. To be honest all the way, the flashlight from the phone would have been beter in the image with the woman walking. A 1/5s shutter speed combined with an f2.8 aperture, ISO not more than 8000 and the flashlight from the phone would have given you a completely different look than just a simple snapshot.

On the image with the bench, the flash it's visible and it makes the grass in the foreground to stand out first and then the bench.

reh321 · 12-31-2020, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by gatorguy

One of the parents decided they wanted a group shot of the children out on the patio but waited to tell me until very shortly after sunset. With no flash along it would have been a problem had I not had the K70 with it's popup flash and some tissue paper ballooned with a rubberband that made an acceptable diffuser.

I seriously avoid using pop-ups for the reasons Dan mentioned, thinking of them as near useless, but in this case it did admirable duty. Glad to have had it since a phone flashlight would not have worked.

How did the K-70 with no flash - just arranging the group to use ambient light - work?

gatorguy · 12-31-2020, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by reh321

How did the K-70 with no flash - just arranging the group to use ambient light - work?

Up to then it worked great. Had the parents not wanted the fruit trees behind the kids which meant any remaining light at their side and wrapping back it still would have. Christmas tissue paper and the K-70 flash at least made it acceptable.

EDIT: Those fruit trees? Can't really see them very well anyway, but no arguing with a mom.

reh321 · 12-31-2020, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by gatorguy

Up to then it worked great. Had the parents not wanted the fruit trees behind the kids which meant any remaining light at their side and wrapping back it still would have. Christmas tissue paper and the K-70 flash at least made it acceptable.

Did you attempt the last shot with just ambient light?

gatorguy · 12-31-2020, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by reh321

Did you attempt the last shot with just ambient light?

I shot one or two of a couple adults, which was OK. I don't think I even tried with the kids 5 or 6 minutes, maybe 10 later. A little late to try it now.

You're on the right track tho. Even the shots earlier in the day indoors no flash turned out quite acceptable. Low light performance on the K-70 and up is really very impressive. Even my old KS2's did great in poor light.

reh321 · 12-31-2020, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by gatorguy

I shot one or two of a couple adults, which was OK. I don't think I even tried with the kids 5 or 6 minutes, maybe 10 later. A little late to try it now.

You're on the right track tho. Even the shots indoors no flash turned out acceptable. Low light performance on the K-70 and up is really very impressive.

We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light.
Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less.

gatorguy · 12-31-2020, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by reh321

We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light.
Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less.

The new K3III will probably be a posterchild for "no flash needed". I much prefer natural light, but for portraiture I don't see the need for augmenting or replacing going away. That's an art all to itself that I'm still struggling with at times.

automorphism · 12-31-2020, 08:11 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light.
Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less.

I think off-camera flash is amazing. You can get cool results with it that are pretty much impossible or very difficult with natural lighting. On camera speedlights works pretty well if you are bouncing. But direct built-in flash is pretty horrible.

BROO · 12-31-2020, 08:44 PM

I just don't get the argument that an interchangable lens system camera needs a built in flash.
Pentax have a fantastic compact flash unit AF201FG and they provide a hot shoe to attach it to.

reh321 · 12-31-2020, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by BROO

I just don't get the argument that an interchangable lens system camera needs a built in flash.
Pentax have a fantastic compact flash unit AF201FG and they provide a hot shoe to attach it to.

The problem with the “AF201FG” is its size.
Pentax needs to make a smaller one that can also serve as a wireless ‘master’.

12-31-2020, 03:25 PM - 1 Like	#467
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,668	Originally posted by hjoseph7 Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. i have hundreds of others. Keep in mind that you can turn down the flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable. I don't think anyone doubts that in-camera flash can be useful on occasion... I've used it myself for fill-in against a bright background. It's just not a feature that's commonly included in advanced enthusiast and professional cameras, regardless of brand. It has limited utility so far as achieving professional results is concerned. No matter how much you drop the power of the in-camera flash, it points directly at the subject and simply isn't an attractive lighting option. It was dropped from the K-3II onwards on top-level Pentax bodies - but you can still have it with the KP or K-70, if you wish... or, add a small P-TTL flash unit such as the AF201FG to the K-3III. At least it has a tilting head, so you can bounce the light where possible... Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-31-2020 at 03:58 PM.

12-31-2020, 05:50 PM - 3 Likes	#471
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by hjoseph7 Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others... Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable. Sorry for being the one who tells you this directly, but none of the images you posted requires the pop-up flash or lots of time to edit them (if you wouldn't have used a flash). For the second and for the latest image (the one with the horses and the one with the band), the pop-up flash didn't do anything to improve the images. On the band image which in my opinion is the keeper one from the 4 images you posted, the only thing that the pop-up flash did was to add even more light on the men's shirts making them stand out. It let the faces of the band members almost silhouettes. In those situations you just had to use exposure compensation to either make the entire band silhouettes, either to make the band stand out by overexposing 1 or 1.5 stops. In post you just had to bring down the highlights to add some details on the backlit area. Same on the image with the men on horses where you barely have only the first horse lighted but you lost details in both highlits and shadows areas and it's visible the lack of details in the sky, in the darker horse or in the bushes behind the men. For the first and the third image the pop-up flash did exactly what a pop-up flash does, added a direct and harsh light. For the image with the woman walking I would have used a panning technique instead of a flash to avoid the harsh light on the subject, to avoid freezing and overexposing the snowflakes and to add some winter mood and motion to the image. Without the flash, I would have had also a background not as dark as you have mostly due to a lower ISO than the scene required. And I say this because it's not an image where a low ISO would have been necessary. To be honest all the way, the flashlight from the phone would have been beter in the image with the woman walking. A 1/5s shutter speed combined with an f2.8 aperture, ISO not more than 8000 and the flashlight from the phone would have given you a completely different look than just a simple snapshot. On the image with the bench, the flash it's visible and it makes the grass in the foreground to stand out first and then the bench. Last edited by Dan Rentea; 12-31-2020 at 06:35 PM.

12-31-2020, 06:37 PM	#473
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by reh321 How did the K-70 with no flash - just arranging the group to use ambient light - work? Up to then it worked great. Had the parents not wanted the fruit trees behind the kids which meant any remaining light at their side and wrapping back it still would have. Christmas tissue paper and the K-70 flash at least made it acceptable. EDIT: Those fruit trees? Can't really see them very well anyway, but no arguing with a mom. Last edited by gatorguy; 12-31-2020 at 06:49 PM.

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12-31-2020, 03:15 PM	#466
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,046	Originally posted by repaap I’m only worrying about weight when I’m at airport(not so much lately). And while K-1 is amazing image quality(I’v seen clear bump up in that after I got K-1 and when I have excellent lens on it. This is heavy stuff, but when I know what I’m getting, no problem. Only AF has been a problem. That said. Camera is not much saving weight, it is lenses + body. But I’m happy to carry what ever if it works. I know that KP might be good. I had on one big gig K-1 + K-3 and this is still one gig I look back and think that it would have been more easy if K-3 would have had atleast as good AF if not better. I was surprised. I had for wide end 15-30 on my K-3 and K-1 with 70-200. And then I mixed some primes. I chose 15-30 instead of 16-50 because of faster AF -as I said weight does not bother me really, even in 3-5 hour event photography- but still focus was off in so may shots, like it has always been. K-1 still has this, luckily not so much as older gen Pentax. I actually think that aps-c + FF combo can be really functional. You can cover so well important focal lengths. And aps-c has that wider Dof advantage also. ---------- Post added 12-31-20 at 18:00 ---------- Yeah! Only good thing about onboard flash is that you could do the ‘fill’ if you don’t have anything else. If someone does however go through the trouble and carry flashes with them(let alone 2)a trigger&receiver if it is needed won’t weight much. And on top of that you get the possibility to put your flash where you want. I’v been in situation where my batteries did die from trigger. I triggered my elinchromes with fgz360II. I was in my own studio and did not have anyone breathing at my neck. Still. Not so creative solution, did the job, but even in my controlled space it was far from being perfect. I was also hoping to use that fgz360II for fill at one other place, but this is not the point. Sure. Popup might save the day, but it is not ideal. Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others... Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable. Attached Images Last edited by hjoseph7; 12-31-2020 at 03:21 PM.

12-31-2020, 03:27 PM - 1 Like	#468
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by hjoseph7 So you mean a pop-up flash would raise the price to 2.5K- 3k ? That's not even close to what he said.

12-31-2020, 03:53 PM	#469
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,046	Originally posted by Parallax That's not even close to what he said. I think I will split before the pitchforks and sickles come out. Asta la vista baby, I got better things to do... Last edited by hjoseph7; 12-31-2020 at 04:16 PM.

12-31-2020, 05:16 PM	#470
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by hjoseph7 Here are a couple of photos that I would have missed, or spent a gazillion hours in PP trying to fix if it wasn't for the pop-up flash on my K-5 II. I have hundreds of others... Keep in mind that you can turn down the pop-up flash to -2 so that it is almost undetectable. I'm not certain what ambient lighting conditions were nor why you felt that any flash was needed. With the K-3iii, I believe users will be much less likely to resort to flash to compensate for the inadequacies of ambient light - to eliminate shadows will remain - but otherwise they will just photograph. Today, we paid a short visit to our daughter and her husband - and I simply captured a couple of scenes using available light with my KP - with my K-30, I would have fiddled and fiddled with flash.

12-31-2020, 06:33 PM	#472
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by gatorguy One of the parents decided they wanted a group shot of the children out on the patio but waited to tell me until very shortly after sunset. With no flash along it would have been a problem had I not had the K70 with it's popup flash and some tissue paper ballooned with a rubberband that made an acceptable diffuser. I seriously avoid using pop-ups for the reasons Dan mentioned, thinking of them as near useless, but in this case it did admirable duty. Glad to have had it since a phone flashlight would not have worked. How did the K-70 with no flash - just arranging the group to use ambient light - work?

12-31-2020, 06:48 PM	#474
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by gatorguy Up to then it worked great. Had the parents not wanted the fruit trees behind the kids which meant any remaining light at their side and wrapping back it still would have. Christmas tissue paper and the K-70 flash at least made it acceptable. Did you attempt the last shot with just ambient light?

12-31-2020, 06:53 PM	#475
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by reh321 Did you attempt the last shot with just ambient light? I shot one or two of a couple adults, which was OK. I don't think I even tried with the kids 5 or 6 minutes, maybe 10 later. A little late to try it now. You're on the right track tho. Even the shots earlier in the day indoors no flash turned out quite acceptable. Low light performance on the K-70 and up is really very impressive. Even my old KS2's did great in poor light.

12-31-2020, 06:57 PM	#476
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by gatorguy I shot one or two of a couple adults, which was OK. I don't think I even tried with the kids 5 or 6 minutes, maybe 10 later. A little late to try it now. You're on the right track tho. Even the shots indoors no flash turned out acceptable. Low light performance on the K-70 and up is really very impressive. We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light. Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less.

12-31-2020, 07:00 PM	#477
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by reh321 We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light. Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less. The new K3III will probably be a posterchild for "no flash needed". I much prefer natural light, but for portraiture I don't see the need for augmenting or replacing going away. That's an art all to itself that I'm still struggling with at times.

12-31-2020, 08:11 PM - 3 Likes	#478
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	Originally posted by reh321 We will have to learn to work with ambient light - to get the people we want lit and to avoid unwanted light. Over time, I believe we will be using flash less and less. I think off-camera flash is amazing. You can get cool results with it that are pretty much impossible or very difficult with natural lighting. On camera speedlights works pretty well if you are bouncing. But direct built-in flash is pretty horrible.

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12-31-2020, 08:44 PM	#479
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655	I just don't get the argument that an interchangable lens system camera needs a built in flash. Pentax have a fantastic compact flash unit AF201FG and they provide a hot shoe to attach it to.

12-31-2020, 08:50 PM	#480
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by BROO I just don't get the argument that an interchangable lens system camera needs a built in flash. Pentax have a fantastic compact flash unit AF201FG and they provide a hot shoe to attach it to. The problem with the “AF201FG” is its size. Pentax needs to make a smaller one that can also serve as a wireless ‘master’.