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01-03-2021, 01:37 AM - 3 Likes   #556
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oktyabr Quote
What you and I think matters little. What EVERYONE ELSE thinks will make or break Pentax. If they are in line with my way of thinking, the K1ii offers better value. Anyone that is seriously concerned about 4k video, 10+ fps, accurate AF, ALREADY owns something else... probably a Sony.

It's just my humble opinion that this camera is catering to a share of the market that Pentax will never possess. They might as well have just released a mirrorless and gotten it over with. Pentax's fame (and fortune) lies in keeping as many of their devout followers as possible and maybe, just maybe, enticing some from over the fence as well.

If this model is priced above the K1ii, *without* a flippy screen, or without GPS/Astro, what can it possibly offer, in that price range, that would make any Sony/Fuji/Olympus/Canikon sell their gear and switch? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.
As you say, that's just your humble opinion. Mine differs...

Claiming the K-1II offers better value than the K-3III is like claiming an orange is better value than an apple. They're both fruit, but different. Depending on what you need them for, either could be "better value".

Now three years old - and largely based on a camera from 2016 - the K-1II is still awesome, offering incredible value for money for those who wish to shoot primarily full-frame and requiring exceptional image quality, but not blistering performance or class-leading AF.C - hence why it's often praised as a landscape photography camera, though of course it can be used for much more. Yet, like all full frame DSLRs, it offers rather poor value for money to those who specifically need a dedicated APS-C body because the format suits their use cases. It makes a very decent fist of APS-C image capture as a useful feature, but it's far from optimised for such work. It's bigger, heavier, slower, and lower in resolution for the same physical sensor area. These aren't criticisms of the K-1II, but merely acknowledgement of the trade-offs in full frame DSLRs.

The K-3III is going to be expensive at release price, no doubt, and I think Ricoh has arguably made a couple of contentious design choices / prioritisations / omissions; but overall I believe it's going to be one heck of a camera... and I believe there'll be enough folks specifically wanting a a top-quality, high-performance, dedicated Pentax APS-C rig who'll seriously appreciate what it offers and see the value in it.

Oh, and I don't think Ricoh is too concerned about winning users from other systems or dominating a specific market segment. They've not played that game in the past, and they survived just fine.

These, of course, are just my humble opinions...

You and I could bat this back and forth ad infinitum and never agree - so how about we wait until the camera is released and reviewed, and revisit then?


Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-03-2021 at 04:46 AM.
01-03-2021, 01:47 AM - 1 Like   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
By parameters, the new camera is worth a price tag similar if not above the current K1. K3 is for speed, K1 for resolution. The next K1 may add speed or increase resolution to a point that it replaces 645.
This 645 thing is not over yet. So K-1 might go up in resolution, but I think that 645 is going to go even higher
01-03-2021, 02:00 AM - 6 Likes   #558
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This old myth of „winning over from the competition“ is funny.
No camera model by any maker ever did win any significant number of users already deeply invested in current glass.
Neither Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji or whoever had cameras that attractive.

People are locked in into a mount and the question is mostly about new users or users with cheaper older lenses.
Typically all this is not folks who spend time in forums.

All a maker needs to do is build a good camera that is different from the rest. And the K-3III seems pretty sexy when it comes to that.
That a camera with a viewfinder is less main stream than smartphone/mirrorless is obvious.

I often have the impression, writers of the „winning over“ myth are more in need of psychological assistance by being part of large groups of people. Accepting minority status is not for the insecure.
01-03-2021, 05:35 AM   #559
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The new aperture coupling for older lenses tells us who they make cameras for. And that is not owners of Canon lenses...

01-03-2021, 06:59 AM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The new aperture coupling for older lenses tells us who they make cameras for. And that is not owners of Canon lenses...
I think a lot of photographers will appreciate the aperture coupling, me included. I've never been entirely comfortable with the green button, understanding of course that for a lot of you guys it's simply second nature.
01-03-2021, 07:52 AM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I think a lot of photographers will appreciate the aperture coupling, me included. I've never been entirely comfortable with the green button, understanding of course that for a lot of you guys it's simply second nature.
I just shoot AV.... same as I always do.
01-03-2021, 08:39 AM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote

All a maker needs to do is build a good camera that is different from the rest.
Bricks and mortar representation and splashy media help. I dont see any of this for K3 III - IMO the launch marketing is fantastically weak, and I cannot even pre order in Canada as far as I can see (and if I can pre order then i'll point you back to Mktg failure).

Recruitment of new buyers is dificult when absent from major consumer distribution such as BB in NA. We're a long way from pop culture like the Beatles sporting a Spotmatic....

01-03-2021, 08:46 AM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattt Quote
Bricks and mortar representation and splashy media help. I dont see any of this for K3 III - IMO the launch marketing is fantastically weak, and I cannot even pre order in Canada as far as I can see (and if I can pre order then i'll point you back to Mktg failure).
Ugh... do you know the camera wasn't launched yet, and won't be until the second half of February?
01-03-2021, 09:03 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I just shoot AV.... same as I always do.
If only that worked with K/M lenses...
01-03-2021, 09:40 AM   #565
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
This old myth of „winning over from the competition“ is funny.
No camera model by any maker ever did win any significant number of users already deeply invested in current glass.
Neither Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji or whoever had cameras that attractive.

People are locked in into a mount and the question is mostly about new users or users with cheaper older lenses.
Typically all this is not folks who spend time in forums.

All a maker needs to do is build a good camera that is different from the rest. And the K-3III seems pretty sexy when it comes to that.
That a camera with a viewfinder is less main stream than smartphone/mirrorless is obvious.

I often have the impression, writers of the „winning over“ myth are more in need of psychological assistance by being part of large groups of people. Accepting minority status is not for the insecure.
There can be an opportunity to win over customers when a manufacturer changes direction in lens mounts, as with the FD mount, and maybe to a lesser extent with the M42. I don't really subscribe to the mount lock-in theory any longer (although I used to), because in every case mounts move on to a point where you just don't care about keeping the old lenses any longer, even expensive ones... especially if you can find somebody more stubborn than you are to sell your old lenses to.
01-03-2021, 10:42 AM - 3 Likes   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
There can be an opportunity to win over customers when a manufacturer changes direction in lens mounts, as with the FD mount, and maybe to a lesser extent with the M42. I don't really subscribe to the mount lock-in theory any longer (although I used to), because in every case mounts move on to a point where you just don't care about keeping the old lenses any longer, even expensive ones... especially if you can find somebody more stubborn than you are to sell your old lenses to.
When a manufacturer changes direction in lens mounts, it loses customers first.
01-03-2021, 11:29 AM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
in every case mounts move on to a point where you just don't care about keeping the old lenses any longer, even expensive ones...
Not me. I'm so attached to some of my AF lenses, I don't think I'll ever switch mounts. I might add one, but I'm trying awfully hard not to... I'm already maintaining two systems, Pentax K and Sony A-mount
01-03-2021, 11:37 AM   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattt Quote
Bricks and mortar representation and splashy media
Splashy media costs probably more than Pentax whole RnD budget is. So yes that would help, but is no option for a small maker.

Brick and Mortar stores: EOL‘d.
01-03-2021, 12:10 PM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
When a manufacturer changes direction in lens mounts, it loses customers first.
I guess, but often losing a customer happens at the same time as another company acquires the company, so I'm not seeing how the sequence matters.
01-03-2021, 12:17 PM - 2 Likes   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Splashy media costs probably more than Pentax whole RnD budget is.
.

I'm not so sure of that...

I've heard some medium and smaller sized YouTube camera gear reviewers lament about their inability to get free loaner (or keeper) new model cameras to review.

Maybe a low cost method for Pentax to promote a new camera would be to loan (or just give) select YouTube camera reviewers a new K3iii camera bodiy (and maybe a lens or two) for them to test.

While this might not work with the very biggest YouTube reviewers (those with over 500,000) subscribers (because they are already heavily brand biast), but I suspect it might work with YouTube reviewers with from 50,000 to 500,000 subscribers because those folks don't make much money on YouTube these days and likely don't have the resources to buy/rent new cameras themselves for review.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 01-03-2021 at 12:43 PM.
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