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01-08-2021, 11:54 AM   #646
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Price range?
ohh. If so yeah that's a very different thing.


Prize = gift or award


Price = value or cost for purchasable item

01-08-2021, 12:55 PM   #647
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
What does this mean? What is a "Prize range" ?
D3500 D5600 D7500 D500

All different prize ranges.
01-08-2021, 01:03 PM - 2 Likes   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
What does this mean? What is a "Prize range" ?
In the olympics: Gold, silver, bronze

In Formula one: Big bottle of champagne, medium bottle of champagne, small bottle of champagne
01-08-2021, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #649
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
In the olympics: Gold, silver, bronze

In Formula one: Big bottle of champagne, medium bottle of champagne, small bottle of champagne
In skiing competition at school it is a spoon, small silver one.

01-08-2021, 01:21 PM - 1 Like   #650
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QuoteOriginally posted by UlrichSchiegg Quote
D3500 D5600 D7500 D500

All different prize ranges.
I think you mean "price range"

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-08-2021 at 01:30 PM.
01-08-2021, 01:28 PM - 2 Likes   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think you mean "price range"
Thank you for the correction, in German we have one word for both meanings. I guess, I will never get that right.

Appreciated.
01-08-2021, 01:30 PM - 4 Likes   #652
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QuoteOriginally posted by UlrichSchiegg Quote
Thank you for the correction, in German we have one word for both meanings. I guess, I will never get that right.

Appreciated.
You're welcome I learned German at school and I can guarantee your English is better than my German

01-08-2021, 02:56 PM - 3 Likes   #653
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
As Dan said people does get used to it. But then again, he is using Canon. I’m sure that some Pentaxians do look at those things. I think that Pentax has that thing under controll, compared to others. Besides no system is ’perfect’ you just have to find the compromise you prefer most.
I use lots of cameras from most manufacturers. It's just happens that my own camera it's a Canon. I don't stress myself over things like accelerator unit or baked RAW files (R5) because to me it's a completely waste of time. If I want the best details my camera can produce, I shoot at the lowes ISO possible with the best lens I have available for the job. If I will be fortunate enough to encounter such a demanding client and my camera will not be able to provide what he's asking for, I have 2 choices:
1. Rent or borrow a proper camera for the job
2. Send the client to a photographer that have the proper tools to cover his demands

Problem solved!

You won't see me going out to shoot and come back home thinking "Oh boy, the accelerator unit from my K1 it's going to ruin the award winning photography I just took because it seems to have 5% less details than what I would have had from my previous camera". And I won't invite a woman to look at a portrait of her by zooming to 100% so that she can see every single imperfection of her skin. No way! I rather resize the image to avoid such a situation.

---------- Post added 01-08-21 at 10:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Correct. That's what I did with the K1 when the last Pentax shop in my region was still selling Pentax, they provided me with the camera and a lens to try it. But they've stopped selling Pentax since the K1 MkII, and they sold all their Pentax inventory on ebay including their 645z stock and lenses. They now use the former Pentax shelf for Fuji the GFX line. So I can try a Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, but not a Pentax. Now I need to buy Pentax from amazon or other online shop, try it and return it, with the risk that they don't accept the return. With the local shops, I can see the gear physically, borrow it, try it, return it, exchange it, much more flexible.
I'm fortunate then because at our official Pentax store I can put my hands on every new camera, if I use gloves, if I don't click the shutter and if I don't go out from the store. At least I can have an idea about handling. If I behave, I may be able to pay with a card instead of cash.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 01-08-2021 at 03:01 PM.
01-08-2021, 04:06 PM - 10 Likes   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think you mean "price range"
QuoteOriginally posted by UlrichSchiegg Quote
Thank you for the correction, in German we have one word for both meanings. I guess, I will never get that right.

Appreciated.
I realise this is an aside from the thread topic, but word origins are one of my minor interests. It turns out that there’s more in common than contemporary languages might suggest, concerning “price” and “prize”:
All three words—price, prize, and praise—are of Romance descent. In addition to the main sense of price remembered today (“money paid for something”), three more, the last two of which are no longer extant, should be added: “value, worth,” “honor, praise,” and “superiority.” Similar semantic evolution took place in medieval German: Preis, now “price” and (!) “prize,” designated “value, fame; perfection; luck; merit; booty.” The sense “price” surfaced around 1230 and was first current only in the language of merchants. The source of Engl. price and German Preis was Old French pris (today’s prix), from Latin pretium “price; value; wages; reward.” Thus, the Latin word already contained the ambiguity preserved by its West European offspring (“price” and “reward”).

So, it all started with the Romans (what did they ever do for us?)
01-08-2021, 07:22 PM - 1 Like   #655
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I realise this is an aside from the thread topic, but word origins are one of my minor interests. It turns out that there’s more in common than contemporary languages might suggest, concerning “price” and “prize”:
All three words—price, prize, and praise—are of Romance descent. In addition to the main sense of price remembered today (“money paid for something”), three more, the last two of which are no longer extant, should be added: “value, worth,” “honor, praise,” and “superiority.” Similar semantic evolution took place in medieval German: Preis, now “price” and (!) “prize,” designated “value, fame; perfection; luck; merit; booty.” The sense “price” surfaced around 1230 and was first current only in the language of merchants. The source of Engl. price and German Preis was Old French pris (today’s prix), from Latin pretium “price; value; wages; reward.” Thus, the Latin word already contained the ambiguity preserved by its West European offspring (“price” and “reward”).

So, it all started with the Romans (what did they ever do for us?)
Ha. Usually, when it comes to word ambiguity in English, I blame the French

I visited Bavaria for the first time a little over a year ago... I thought I had a pretty good handle on "Menu Deutsch" (the ability to order food and find the restroom) from several trips to Bonn and Frankfurt.
Yeah, Bavarian German is not the same as Bonn/Frankfurt German, even to my leaden ears... at least Bier is the same...

I took the MX with the 24-35 on that trip... so an excellent optical viewfinder like the K3III but basically nothing else in common (though I still look at the film box holder like it's a screen)...

-Eric
01-08-2021, 11:54 PM   #656
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I realise this is an aside from the thread topic, but word origins are one of my minor interests. It turns out that there’s more in common than contemporary languages might suggest, concerning “price” and “prize”:
All three words—price, prize, and praise—are of Romance descent. In addition to the main sense of price remembered today (“money paid for something”), three more, the last two of which are no longer extant, should be added: “value, worth,” “honor, praise,” and “superiority.” Similar semantic evolution took place in medieval German: Preis, now “price” and (!) “prize,” designated “value, fame; perfection; luck; merit; booty.” The sense “price” surfaced around 1230 and was first current only in the language of merchants. The source of Engl. price and German Preis was Old French pris (today’s prix), from Latin pretium “price; value; wages; reward.” Thus, the Latin word already contained the ambiguity preserved by its West European offspring (“price” and “reward”).

So, it all started with the Romans (what did they ever do for us?)
I mix them up too, not so much any more thanks to this.

Some say that Finnish is hard language to learn. Atleast we have this better. price = hinta, prize=palkinto.

A bit offsubject. But we learned something atleast

---------- Post added 01-09-21 at 09:04 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I use lots of cameras from most manufacturers. It's just happens that my own camera it's a Canon. I don't stress myself over things like accelerator unit or baked RAW files (R5) because to me it's a completely waste of time. If I want the best details my camera can produce, I shoot at the lowes ISO possible with the best lens I have available for the job. If I will be fortunate enough to encounter such a demanding client and my camera will not be able to provide what he's asking for, I have 2 choices:
1. Rent or borrow a proper camera for the job
2. Send the client to a photographer that have the proper tools to cover his demands

Problem solved!

You won't see me going out to shoot and come back home thinking "Oh boy, the accelerator unit from my K1 it's going to ruin the award winning photography I just took because it seems to have 5% less details than what I would have had from my previous camera". And I won't invite a woman to look at a portrait of her by zooming to 100% so that she can see every single imperfection of her skin. No way! I rather resize the image to avoid such a situation.

---------- Post added 01-08-21 at 10:09 PM ----------



I'm fortunate then because at our official Pentax store I can put my hands on every new camera, if I use gloves, if I don't click the shutter and if I don't go out from the store. At least I can have an idea about handling. If I behave, I may be able to pay with a card instead of cash.
I’m happy about having actual Pentax dealer nearby too. So handy.

About accelerator and all that. I’m not losing my sleep over it. I understand people who do look at these things. But as seen in this theead, they are not the majority of the photographers. I do admit that I do pixel peep already. And I have K-1 original. Especially stitched landscapes, which I’v done are so much fun to look even at 100% magn. But for some things it is not necessary nor helpful to zoom in. Besides, if I shoot at higher ISO, I have to do NR. It will reduce details anyway.
01-09-2021, 01:33 AM   #657
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I'm fortunate then because at our official Pentax store I can put my hands on every new camera, if I use gloves, if I don't click the shutter and if I don't go out from the store. At least I can have an idea about handling. If I behave, I may be able to pay with a card instead of cash.
Strange. In the past you said that you couldn't rent and try Pentax gear and Romania and explain that was the reason why you switched to Canon.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I don't stress myself over things like accelerator unit or baked RAW files (R5) because to me it's a completely waste of time. If I want the best details my camera can produce, I shoot at the lowes ISO possible with the best lens I have available for the job.
Print 50x75, because it's cheapest cost of photo printing per unit area. Or back off a few steps from the print, and you'll be all'right.

Anyway, printing concerns less than 10% of ILC camera users, and ILC camera users are less than 10% of the population, so it's less than 1% of people who occasionally print something , for the 99% of the population, 4K and a smartphone is the maximum needed to display on OLEDs. An apsc camera with 24Mpixels has more resolution than 4K, is indeed more than good enough for more than 99% of the population who view photographs on electronic displays. IMHO, for apsc cameras, we don't need more than 4K (2160x3840) pixels, but auto-focus and burst rate are very important specs, because customers want to take a lot of pictures. High burst rate is nice to have for spray and pray approach. Last but least, it's possible to create bokeh with software, digitally, and add artificial details with and replace / transform photographs with AI software. Basically, it's common practice to take portrait shots in a studio with a green backdrop, and then replace the green backdrop in software, after background replacement the subject edges at a little weird mix of pixels from the old and new background but you can't see it on a smartphone display or computer screen, so it's all good. Photoshop skills are more important than ever.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-09-2021 at 01:43 AM. Reason: modified for completeness
01-09-2021, 02:01 AM - 2 Likes   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think you mean "price range"
Often computer software changes what I type in - I think I realised this too when writing „price“. I hate these auto corrections and always disable it if I find out how I can do it.
01-09-2021, 04:04 AM   #659
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Personally, if I think I want a particular piece of gear -- glass or body --- it makes more sense to purchase it from an online reseller with a good return policy. It just often is 5 percent of the new price of the item new to rent it for a week. The only way I would do it is if it is a specialty item that I don't think I want to use long term -- say, I am going on a safari and want a 150-450 specifically for that trip, but probably don't want to actually purchase that lens.
01-09-2021, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Strange. In the past you said that you couldn't rent and try Pentax gear and Romania and explain that was the reason why you switched to Canon.
Did you read what I wrote? I couldn't and I still can't rent a Pentax in Romania because no store is renting Pentax. I said that we have a Pentax official store where I can go to see Pentax products, but they barelly let you touch them. That's why I said that I need gloves to put my hands on cameras or lenses. Renting and shooting it's completely different than puting your hands on a camera for 3-5 minutes, without taking any shots with it.


QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Anyway, printing concerns less than 10% of ILC camera users, and ILC camera users are less than 10% of the population, so it's less than 1% of people who occasionally print something , for the 99% of the population, 4K and a smartphone is the maximum needed to display on OLEDs. An apsc camera with 24Mpixels has more resolution than 4K, is indeed more than good enough for more than 99% of the population who view photographs on electronic displays. IMHO, for apsc cameras, we don't need more than 4K (2160x3840) pixels, but auto-focus and burst rate are very important specs, because customers want to take a lot of pictures. High burst rate is nice to have for spray and pray approach. Last but least, it's possible to create bokeh with software, digitally, and add artificial details with and replace / transform photographs with AI software. Basically, it's common practice to take portrait shots in a studio with a green backdrop, and then replace the green backdrop in software, after background replacement the subject edges at a little weird mix of pixels from the old and new background but you can't see it on a smartphone display or computer screen, so it's all good. Photoshop skills are more important than ever.
Printing large at high ISO it's not that common and that's why an accelerator unit won't hurt the printing process. So, even if the accelerator has some visible impact in images at ISO 640 and above, it doesn't affect the ones printing at the largest dimmensions that a K-1 II can offer maximum quality. I don't get it... you want to print large or not? Because each time you increase the ISO you can't print anymore as large as you say you want.

---------- Post added 01-09-21 at 12:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Personally, if I think I want a particular piece of gear -- glass or body --- it makes more sense to purchase it from an online reseller with a good return policy. It just often is 5 percent of the new price of the item new to rent it for a week. The only way I would do it is if it is a specialty item that I don't think I want to use long term -- say, I am going on a safari and want a 150-450 specifically for that trip, but probably don't want to actually purchase that lens.
I rent 4-6 time a year a 300mm f2.8 for some situations where I know I have the chance to shoot a bird or animal that's hard to get. It's 60$ for 2 days. It's also 7000$ to buy it.

I rent 100mm f2.8L macro lens for shooting dentistry implant surgeries. I have a collaboration with a dentist and I shoot for him 4-6 surgeries/year. It's 15$ to rent the lens and it's 1000$ to buy it.

I rent 28-70mm f2 when I have a corporate event where I can't use flash and where I have to stay just in one place in order not to disturb the speakers. It costs 60$ to rent it and 3000$ to buy it. I shoot with primes (35mm and 85mm) for lots of reasons but for 1 out of 8 events I have to stay in one place and it's easier to get the job done with a zoom in those cases.

I've rented a 11-24mm f4 lens when I had to shoot an entire mall. I paid 60$ to rent it. It costs 2000$+ to buy it...

It's true that I own/buy the lenses I need in 85% of the situations, but I've earned around 4000$ with rented lenses for which I paid around 300$. For me, renting it's Heaven.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 01-09-2021 at 05:50 AM.
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