[grahame]

This was hend-held with M* 300mm f4, using focus confirmation.......

Great photo!
But you must have stopped down to F8 or so here. Slight shift of focusing point is not a big deal. If you use a 85/1.4 or 50/1.2, and want to focus on (one of the) eyes, you will find focus confirmation is very limiting.

Anyway, with old eyes, I found EVF is the best choice to MF lenses.

[pichaser]

My eyes are not what they were, and I find I can use focus confirmation faster than trying to get it right with my eyesight. Added bonus of course is the instant review which you can zoom to check your focus.

This was hend-held with M* 300mm f4, using focus confirmation.......

Gorgeous with no technical issues.

[pschlute]

Great photo!
But you must have stopped down to F8 or so here. Slight shift of focusing point is not a big deal. If you use a 85/1.4 or 50/1.2, and want to focus on (one of the) eyes, you will find focus confirmation is very limiting.

Anyway, with old eyes, I found EVF is the best choice to MF lenses.

I think this was indeed taken at f8. But the DOF of this shot is about 4 inches. You can see the far side of the rose petals and green leaves are out of focus. Focus accuracy was a very big deal here which is why I posted the image.

For sure a shot with a 1.4 or 1.2 lens will show up any focus inaccuracy very clearly. When using a fast manual lens with a split-prism screen your problem is going to be focus-recompose. Unless you want the "eye" to be in the centre of the frame, the act of recomposing is going to throw the focus off. This is the same for using focus confirmation, which defaults to centre point AF confirmation only.

When working with manual lenses I find LV zoomed 100% to be the best focus method especially if working on a tripod and you have time on your hands.

[MMVIII]

I think this was indeed taken at f8. But the DOF of this shot is about 4 inches. You can see the far side of the rose petals and green leaves are out of focus. Focus accuracy was a very big deal here which is why I posted the image.

For sure a shot with a 1.4 or 1.2 lens will show up any focus inaccuracy very clearly. When using a fast manual lens with a split-prism screen your problem is going to be focus-recompose. Unless you want the "eye" to be in the centre of the frame, the act of recomposing is going to throw the focus off. This is the same for using focus confirmation, which defaults to centre point AF confirmation only.

When working with manual lenses I find LV zoomed 100% to be the best focus method especially if working on a tripod and you have time on your hands.

Exactly. Manual focus with fast lenses on modern cameras will always be a compromise. And in the end you have to ask yourself the question why you bought a APSC camera with the best AF up to date from Pentax if you would exchange the matte screen to a split screen and obtruse your view in AF shooting just to use your A 85 1.4. The camera won't be cheap exactly for the reason that it offers fast and accurate AF shooting with modern lenses, like the DFA 85 1.4. The only lens not available in a modern AF version would be the 50 1.2, but on this crop body it would not give you shallower DOF as the DFA 85 on a K-1...

However, as I tried to point out, with 101 small AF-points the overlay could act as a kind of focus peaking, by highlighting the area of focus in real time while focusing manually.

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Last edited by MMVIII; 01-03-2021 at 04:53 PM.

[thibs]

Mmm doesn't the focus confirmation only works on the center focus point at least for old lenses ?

[grahame]

just to use your A 85 1.4. The camera won't be cheap exactly for the reason that it offers fast and accurate AF shooting with modern lenses, like the DFA 85 1.4

Well, what is the purpose of providing virtual aperture lever on this APS-C camera then? At least, A 85/1.4 has automatic aperture control and will not take much advantage from this feature. This function, if turns to be true, is aimed to shooters want to use and like to use older MF lenses such as K or M version. I have never seen any lens with auto focus but no auto aperture.

Exactly. Manual focus with fast lenses on modern cameras will always be a compromise.

Also, DSLR's AF system struggles with super fast lenses. Pentax K1, at least mine, could not handle accurate AF with my FA 85/1.4, sigma 85/1.4, even missed focus with DA55/1.4. Just to add: camera and lenses were sent together to get serviced but didn't help much. I sold my K1 to someone wanted to convert the mount to use his Contax lenses.

I am not accusing Pentax. Canon DSLRs could not handle 50/1.2 as well. So canon provided E-es screen or E-cb screen for MF. We want accurate MF assistant as back up if AF could not perform.
Why would it be a problem if we ask Pentax to provide an interchangeable focusing screen, after they decided to give virtual aperture lever on new camera?

[MMVIII]

Mmm doesn't the focus confirmation only works on the center focus point at least for old lenses ?

Could be. I never paid attention to that. However, if confirmation would work with all points it could be a very useful pseudo focus peaking. But I see this being rather unlikely now.

---------- Post added 01-04-21 at 11:44 AM ----------

Well, what is the purpose of providing virtual aperture lever on this APS-C camera then? At least, A 85/1.4 has automatic aperture control and will not take much advantage from this feature. This function, if turns to be true, is aimed to shooters want to use and like to use older MF lenses such as K or M version. I have never seen any lens with auto focus but no auto aperture.

Also, DSLR's AF system struggles with super fast lenses. Pentax K1, at least mine, could not handle accurate AF with my FA 85/1.4, sigma 85/1.4, even missed focus with DA55/1.4. Just to add: camera and lenses were sent together to get serviced but didn't help much. I sold my K1 to someone wanted to convert the mount to use his Contax lenses.

I am not accusing Pentax. Canon DSLRs could not handle 50/1.2 as well. So canon provided E-es screen or E-cb screen for MF. We want accurate MF assistant as back up if AF could not perform.
Why would it be a problem if we ask Pentax to provide an interchangeable focusing screen, after they decided to give virtual aperture lever on new camera?

You learn something new every day. It was really my curiosity to understand why someone would buy a new high speed autofocus crop sensor DSLR and change the focussing screen to use it with manual focus lenses...

What you say is all fine, and I see a distinct community here has managed to transform their K1s to accept Canon screens. But my point stays, I don't think the screens will be exchangable as a standard and I doubt it will be supported by the manufacturer. Which I do fully understand. The new software support with stopped down metering before the actual exposure will for sure be a welcome addition to the handling of old lenses and I might use some of my older glass more frequently if it would be implemented in my KP too (I would not see a reason why it could not).
However, I doubt anything beyond that can be deducted from this implementation, it's here because it can be done. And if some people will decide that this is the right platform for them to be used with their old glass they will still find ways to modify it to their liking. I'm perfectly fine with that.

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Last edited by MMVIII; 01-04-2021 at 08:34 AM.

[Breakfastographer]

There is still the problem at 8mm with the K-1I (latest firmware) writing 0.0mm in the Exif Focal Length information...

I made a little Windows program which can search all the photos (Raw and Jpeg) in a directory and correct the information.
It also show all the Exif informations of a photo : Sigma 8-16mm modifier program.

Thank you for posting that information (probably for the nth time, so extra thanks for that ).

[beholder3]

Also, DSLR's AF system struggles with super fast lenses. Pentax K1, at least mine, could not handle accurate AF with my FA 85/1.4, sigma 85/1.4, even missed focus with DA55/1.4.

If even a single person can achieve something with a given equipment then it's obviously a user skill shortage for anyone who can not.

[Serkevan]

If even a single person can achieve something with a given equipment then it's obviously a user skill shortage for anyone who can not.

Eh... While technically somewhat correct, not everyone is willing to put the effort needed to get through the clunkiness of a given equipment. Moreover, "can achieve something" and "consistently achieves something" are miles apart - I'm perfectly capable of getting a wildlife shot on a manual focus lens, but I will have lost so many others that you won't catch me dead using anything MF for that if I can avoid it.

That said, critical focus with razor-thin depth of field is one of those things that is specialized enough that anyone looking into it should be willing to put in the effort and get a good technique. Personally I don't know how the K-1 behaves there since I don't have f/1.4 lenses, but my FA77 works fairly well at f/1.8 which isn't much more forgiving (and even a slight misfocus gives you a pleasing A4 anyway).

[Rondec]

I guess I've been lucky. My DFA *85 and DA *55 and f2.8 zooms work pretty well. I do use live view auto focus sometimes when shooting portraits (it just gives me more focus point options and eye focus), but most of the time I'm just using PDAF points and my K-1 and K-1 II lock on accurately.

[beholder3]

not everyone is willing to put the effort needed

Let's remember grahame claimed "could not handle accurate AF" without any restrictions or limitations.
If you can not bring home at least 7-8 nicely focused shots (of a calm subject, no snapshots) out of 10 with a fast lens on a current camera it's you who are the issue.

Typical internet forum stuff where people will aggressively point fingers at perfectly capable equipment instead of admitting their own (severe) limitations.
Tomorrow we'll have people claiming "the car did not work at all" because you had to use the steering wheel yourself instead of some software doing it all for you.

Surprisingly there are few honest posts saying "I am lazy and lack the skills, so I want automated everything to do it for me". There is only "the car did not work".
Junk food is there because few people are capable of cooking and because they are lazy. Not because their ovens are all faulty.

[Serkevan]

Let's remember grahame claimed "could not handle accurate AF" without any restrictions or limitations.
If you can not bring home at least 7-8 nicely focused shots (of a calm subject, no snapshots) out of 10 with a fast lens on a current camera it's you who are the issue.

Typical internet forum stuff where people will aggressively point fingers at perfectly capable equipment instead of admitting their own (severe) limitations.
Tomorrow we'll have people claiming "the car did not work at all" because you had to use the steering wheel yourself instead of some software doing it all for you.

Surprisingly there are few honest posts saying "I am lazy and lack the skills, so I want automated everything to do it for me". There is only "the car did not work".
Junk food is there because few people are capable of cooking and because they are lazy. Not because their ovens are all faulty.

Yeah, I assumed it was mostly hyperbole of "I wasn't getting enough keepers" more than "Not a single shot taken home" (I took that from the "didn't help much", which I took to mean that calibrating helped some). Recent Pentax cameras are perfectly capable of nailing focus if you know what you're doing, and the K-3iii should expand this to work better in AF-C (hopefully with larger area-AF - the K-1 struggles a lot with anything bigger than Expanded-1) for those less calm subjects which are typically the issue.

Incidentally, the last "portrait" session I did (wedding as a guest, Tokina AF 70-210/4.5 shot mostly wide open, with half the shots needing ISO 5k+) I got about around 90% well focused shots. I mean it's not that fast a lens, but 200mm at f/4.5 is still thin DOF.

[ThorSanchez]

Surprisingly there are few honest posts saying "I am lazy and lack the skills, so I want automated everything to do it for me".

How about "I've been trying to hone my skills with Pentax cameras for almost a decade and I do reasonably well with action shots, but I'd really like to see what a modern autofocus system can do for me."

[Wasp]

I was about to reconsider my shopping list, but then I saw this.