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01-04-2021, 04:09 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
I topped my K-30 at ISO 1250. How about you?
I limit my K-30 to about 1600, but I decided this weekend that I can allow my KP to go to around 200K.

01-04-2021, 06:37 PM - 1 Like   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Depending on dynamic range and fine detail in the scene, exposure accuracy, intended final output dimensions and the photographer's tolerance for some "grain" (luminance noise), most Pentax cameras are quite capable of capturing genuinely presentable images two-to-three stops below their maximum ISO setting - if shooting raw and applying colour noise reduction knowledgeably in a good raw conversion software. For example, my K-3 has a maximum ISO setting of 51200, and I'd suggest its realistic high ISO limit is two stops below at around 12800 - though, in a pinch, I would push it a bit higher... and I'd have no concerns shooting at ISO 6400 all day long, unless subjects and scenes had a great deal of fine detail or dynamic range in them. The KP, with its maximum of ISO 819200 appears to have a realistic maximum three stops lower at around 102400 for smaller output dimensions, while 51200 seems very decent - which is incredible when you think about it.

I believe the K-30 has a maximum ISO setting of 25600. Shooting raw, it should be usable at ISO 6400 (perhaps even a little higher still, occasionally), while ISO 3200 ought to be a no-brainer, IMHO. Heck, I can push my Pentax Q to ISO 3200 in a pinch and get usable images with a bit of post-processing...
I agree. There are variables that need to be considered in the equation when shooting at high ISO.
With my K-30 and DA 50 1.8, I shot a special event at a nightclub and had to use 10,000-12,800 ISO (no use of flash due to video being recorded and I didn't want to blind the Salsa Dancers) and the images were completely useable for online social media marketing on Instagram and FB.
01-04-2021, 07:09 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Depending on dynamic range and fine detail in the scene, exposure accuracy, intended final output dimensions and the photographer's tolerance for some "grain" (luminance noise), most Pentax cameras are quite capable of capturing genuinely presentable images two-to-three stops below their maximum ISO setting - if shooting raw and applying colour noise reduction knowledgeably in a good raw conversion software. For example, my K-3 has a maximum ISO setting of 51200, and I'd suggest its realistic high ISO limit is two stops below at around 12800 - though, in a pinch, I would push it a bit higher... and I'd have no concerns shooting at ISO 6400 all day long, unless subjects and scenes had a great deal of fine detail or dynamic range in them. The KP, with its maximum of ISO 819200 appears to have a realistic maximum three stops lower at around 102400 for smaller output dimensions, while 51200 seems very decent - which is incredible when you think about it.

I believe the K-30 has a maximum ISO setting of 25600. Shooting raw, it should be usable at ISO 6400 (perhaps even a little higher still, occasionally), while ISO 3200 ought to be a no-brainer, IMHO. Heck, I can push my Pentax Q to ISO 3200 in a pinch and get usable images with a bit of post-processing...
It's easy to address what was considered insanely high ISO...

Once you've fine tuned the 'final ' draft of your high ISO image and feel it's still too 'grainy,' take a 'next step' with LR Classic 10.1's Adjustment Brush+Texture slider. Highlight the offending areas in the image and soften things as needed.


Works for me.


Might work for you, too.

Cheers... M
01-04-2021, 08:26 PM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
It's easy to address what was considered insanely high ISO...

Once you've fine tuned the 'final ' draft of your high ISO image and feel it's still too 'grainy,' take a 'next step' with LR Classic 10.1's Adjustment Brush+Texture slider. Highlight the offending areas in the image and soften things as needed.


Works for me.


Might work for you, too.

Cheers... M
Or you could just use DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and crank up the DeepPrime AI noise reduction and not worrying about having to brush anything thing to get excellent High ISO images. I still haven't really started cranking my K-3 ISO up much but PL has made my processing so much easier and shortens my time in front of my laptop. Its hard to start getting used to shooting at the upper useable ISO range.....Old habits are hard to break


Last edited by Larrymc; 01-04-2021 at 08:39 PM.
01-04-2021, 09:34 PM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Its hard to start getting used to shooting at the upper useable ISO range.....Old habits are hard to break
Yes, the power was off in our neighborhood this weekend, so we stayed with our older daughter for a few days { outside temperatures were in the 30sF}.

Several of the photos I took in their "open concept" house would have been difficult for flash, but my KP delivered, despite my having to allow the ISO to creep near 200K at times.
I was not thrilled - but it was better than not taking anything - and the KP did deliver photos with only a little noise {and DR and color fidelity were OK}.
01-05-2021, 12:54 AM - 1 Like   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
It's easy to address what was considered insanely high ISO...

Once you've fine tuned the 'final ' draft of your high ISO image and feel it's still too 'grainy,' take a 'next step' with LR Classic 10.1's Adjustment Brush+Texture slider. Highlight the offending areas in the image and soften things as needed.


Works for me.


Might work for you, too.

Cheers... M
QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Or you could just use DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and crank up the DeepPrime AI noise reduction and not worrying about having to brush anything thing to get excellent High ISO images. I still haven't really started cranking my K-3 ISO up much but PL has made my processing so much easier and shortens my time in front of my laptop. Its hard to start getting used to shooting at the upper useable ISO range.....Old habits are hard to break
Like many aspects of photography, image noise and reduction techniques are pretty subjective and personal...

Over the years, having tried and fine-tuned various approaches, I no longer (or very rarely) apply any luminance noise reduction to high ISO images. I'm fastidious about colour noise, and always seek to remove that as far as possible - but I've yet to use any tool in any raw conversion software that reduces luminance noise without having at least some impact on detail. As a result, I've learned to embrace the grain and limit my final output dimensions accordingly. There's usually a resolution or size at which even the noisiest of images can be enjoyed without the grain being too intrusive, so I find that and accept it as a justifiable limitation for high ISO shots.

Having said that, I've not tried Lightroom Classic 10.1 or DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and DeepPrime AI. I've been using Darktable and/or RawTherapee almost exclusively since Adobe's switch to the subscription model, and find them largely as capable as the stand-alone Lightroom 6 I (RawTherapee, in particular, is excellent at colour noise reduction).

I'm looking forward to seeing (and playing with) raw files from the K-3III at each ISO setting. The KP is already noticeably more capable than my K-3 at high ISOs, and the K-3III should be better still. Pretty exciting

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-05-2021 at 02:08 AM.
01-05-2021, 03:25 AM - 8 Likes   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Or you could just use DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and crank up the DeepPrime AI noise reduction and not worrying about having to brush anything thing to get excellent High ISO images. I still haven't really started cranking my K-3 ISO up much but PL has made my processing so much easier and shortens my time in front of my laptop. Its hard to start getting used to shooting at the upper useable ISO range.....Old habits are hard to break

I think all of you people living at more sensible climates than my own native polar-adjacent region are underestimating what improved high ISO in winter will mean to some of us!

I got Capture One last year, and it did improve my pp control, including noise reduction. But I expect high ISO performance to be able to do more than noise reduction can, in winter, in Denmark.

We are a bunch of holiday traditionalists. Christmas is celebrated on Christmas eve, with a real tree with real candles. In winter darkness. Some years I have used flash, but it kind of ruins the atmosphere, and I'm rarely happy with the results. So this year I only took ambient light photos. In a room lit only by a tree full of candles. The results were... well... I have photos.

Yes, I know it's a lot to ask of any camera. But I look forward to next Christmas with the K3III!



01-05-2021, 07:23 AM - 1 Like   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Like many aspects of photography, image noise and reduction techniques are pretty subjective and personal...

Over the years, having tried and fine-tuned various approaches, I no longer (or very rarely) apply any luminance noise reduction to high ISO images. I'm fastidious about colour noise, and always seek to remove that as far as possible - but I've yet to use any tool in any raw conversion software that reduces luminance noise without having at least some impact on detail. As a result, I've learned to embrace the grain and limit my final output dimensions accordingly. There's usually a resolution or size at which even the noisiest of images can be enjoyed without the grain being too intrusive, so I find that and accept it as a justifiable limitation for high ISO shots.

Having said that, I've not tried Lightroom Classic 10.1 or DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and DeepPrime AI. I've been using Darktable and/or RawTherapee almost exclusively since Adobe's switch to the subscription model, and find them largely as capable as the stand-alone Lightroom 6 I (RawTherapee, in particular, is excellent at colour noise reduction).

I'm looking forward to seeing (and playing with) raw files from the K-3III at each ISO setting. The KP is already noticeably more capable than my K-3 at high ISOs, and the K-3III should be better still. Pretty exciting
Well, Mike, the only way you will ever know is to down load a copy of PhotoLab 4.1.1 Elite which has DeepPrime and use it free for 30 days then you can determine if it looses any detail. Mind you, a capable GPU is needed for the program to work effeciently.
01-05-2021, 07:55 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Well, Mike, the only way you will ever know is to down load a copy of PhotoLab 4.1.1 Elite which has DeepPrime and use it free for 30 days then you can determine if it looses any detail. Mind you, a capable GPU is needed for the program to work effeciently.
I might just do that. The newer of my laptops is based on an Intel i7-8750H with NVidia Quadro P2000, which I'm sure will be adequate. It's also running Windows 10, whereas the machine I'm using right now runs Linux Mint 18.3...
01-05-2021, 08:00 AM - 1 Like   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
I think all of you people living at more sensible climates than my own native polar-adjacent region are underestimating what improved high ISO in winter will mean to some of us!

I got Capture One last year, and it did improve my pp control, including noise reduction. But I expect high ISO performance to be able to do more than noise reduction can, in winter, in Denmark.

We are a bunch of holiday traditionalists. Christmas is celebrated on Christmas eve, with a real tree with real candles. In winter darkness. Some years I have used flash, but it kind of ruins the atmosphere, and I'm rarely happy with the results. So this year I only took ambient light photos. In a room lit only by a tree full of candles. The results were... well... I have photos.

Yes, I know it's a lot to ask of any camera. But I look forward to next Christmas with the K3III!
I've never considered the photography challenges with living in regions like yours, the K-3III should give you much improved images.

BTW, I really like the mood in your photo and the candles, Wow!! Congrats on being a Christmas Traditionalist, not many left in the world!
01-05-2021, 08:41 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Well, Mike, the only way you will ever know is to down load a copy of PhotoLab 4.1.1 Elite which has DeepPrime and use it free for 30 days then you can determine if it looses any detail. Mind you, a capable GPU is needed for the program to work effeciently.
The astronomer web-site didn't see any detail lost
Pentax K-1 Mark II Astrophotography Review – Lonely Speck
01-05-2021, 09:03 AM - 1 Like   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
I got Capture One last year, and it did improve my pp control, including noise reduction. But I expect high ISO performance to be able to do more than noise reduction can, in winter, in Denmark.

We are a bunch of holiday traditionalists. Christmas is celebrated on Christmas eve, with a real tree with real candles. In winter darkness. Some years I have used flash, but it kind of ruins the atmosphere, and I'm rarely happy with the results. So this year I only took ambient light photos. In a room lit only by a tree full of candles. The results were... well... I have photos.

Yes, I know it's a lot to ask of any camera. But I look forward to next Christmas with the K3III!
It might be worth revisiting flash for these types of shot. A relatively low level of flash bounced off the ceiling and/or wall behind you, balanced with a high enough ISO to capture a reasonable amount of the ambient light, should maintain the mood but allow you to shoot a stop or two lower in ISO. Worth a try... it could make all the difference...
01-05-2021, 09:16 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Like many aspects of photography, image noise and reduction techniques are pretty subjective and personal...

Over the years, having tried and fine-tuned various approaches, I no longer (or very rarely) apply any luminance noise reduction to high ISO images. I'm fastidious about colour noise, and always seek to remove that as far as possible - but I've yet to use any tool in any raw conversion software that reduces luminance noise without having at least some impact on detail. As a result, I've learned to embrace the grain and limit my final output dimensions accordingly. There's usually a resolution or size at which even the noisiest of images can be enjoyed without the grain being too intrusive, so I find that and accept it as a justifiable limitation for high ISO shots.

Having said that, I've not tried Lightroom Classic 10.1 or DXO PhotoLab 4.1.1 and DeepPrime AI. I've been using Darktable and/or RawTherapee almost exclusively since Adobe's switch to the subscription model, and find them largely as capable as the stand-alone Lightroom 6 I (RawTherapee, in particular, is excellent at colour noise reduction).

I'm looking forward to seeing (and playing with) raw files from the K-3III at each ISO setting. The KP is already noticeably more capable than my K-3 at high ISOs, and the K-3III should be better still. Pretty exciting
Same here. I'll shoot my K-50 to ISO 12800 & I don't really have much of an issue with the high ISO "grain". It's the color noise that bothers me more. I don't pixel peep when viewing my images on the monitor or on the big screen TV. Even the ISO 12800 images look great on them, if exposed properly. The only pixel peeping I do is in RawTherapee to see what's going on with the color noise, grain, & sharpness. The RGB aggressive NR mode gets rid of a lot of color noise, but it does reduce color by a tiny bit, compared to L*a*b* NR mode. Regardless, even an RGB aggressive high ISO image still looks much better than the camera's high ISO OOC jpeg.

I can't wait to see how the K-3III performs at high ISO. My guess is that ISO 25600 will be very usable on the K-3III. More than likely a bit better than what the KP can do & the KP is quite good at 25600.

The start of CP+ 2021 is only 30 days away. I can't wait to see how much more information is revealed & how the K-3III performs.
01-05-2021, 09:36 AM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I might just do that. The newer of my laptops is based on an Intel i7-8750H with NVidia Quadro P2000, which I'm sure will be adequate. It's also running Windows 10, whereas the machine I'm using right now runs Linux Mint 18.3...
Go for it, you might like it. I'm running an older Intel Core I7 4810MQ processor and an Nvidia Quadro Pro k2100M and mine does great with PL4. If you do try the program also try DXO FilmPack 5 Elite and DXO ViewPoint both can be tried free for 30 days also. Here is a short video of how to use DeepPrime:
and here is a great tutorial of PhotoLab Efficiency with DxO PhotoLab . I think you will be pleasantly surprised with PhotoLab 4.1.1

Larry
01-05-2021, 09:41 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Go for it, you might like it. I'm running an older Intel Core I7 4810MQ processor and an Nvidia Quadro Pro k2100M and mine does great with PL4. If you do try the program also try DXO FilmPack 5 Elite and DXO ViewPoint both can be tried free for 30 days also. Here is a short video of how to use DeepPrime: I'm BLOWN AWAY by the Noise Reduction in PhotoLab 4 - YouTube and here is a great tutorial of PhotoLab Efficiency with DxO PhotoLab . I think you will be pleasantly surprised with PhotoLab 4.1.1

Larry
A reminder to all that we do have existing threads dedicated to discussion of photo-processing. This one is about the K3III hands-on report
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