[thibs]

Just now I finally fell for the Ricoh GR iii - it is a camera that makes sense in a city environment

You will love it

7. those who read the user reviews and can't wait for all the innovations to appear in a K-1 III. Fall 2022?

I just bought a second hand K-1 with the same idea in mind.

[biz-engineer]

There are several disadvantages of purchasing very expensive gear only on occasion. You don't get the advantage of increasing technology over the time.

Yes, I agree. There are advantages and disadvantages. Cameras and lenses come with incremental improvements, and there is the uncertainty of what future technological evolution will be. It's double guessing to figure if a new camera model has corner stone technology or not. Back when the K7 (CCD?) was released, it was hardly possible to know that the next model K5 (CMOS sensor) would offer 1 stop better noise performance. Looking backward, it is obvious that K7 was a small improvement over K20 (if any at all), and the K5 series was a significant improvement in noise performance. Now, I'd say, BSI vs FSI CMOS is the interesting change. Pentax KP has, presumably, an FSI CMOS sensor, and K33 has a BSI dual gain sensor (1 stop better at high ISO).

---------- Post added 10-02-21 at 07:37 ----------

For the vast majority of people buying a $10000 camera is a nonsensical decision, even if they only do it once a decade. And few people buy a new Fuji every 18 months for a decade.

I agree. Yet, I've noticed, at the supermarket, a bag of 5kg of lentils cost 10 Euros, bags of 500gr of the same lentils cost 2 euros. The vast majority of people buy 500gr many times over a 1 year period, overall it costs them more but they are still convinced 500gr bags are cheaper. I've noticed the same thing in the real estate in Europe. Small flats (<100m2) cost 3500 euros per m2, and large flats cost 2500 Euros/m2, it's even possible to get down to 1000 Euros/m2 for really large properties. Yet, most people buy the small flats and real estate agencies have a hard time finding buyers for large properties. A friend of mine bought a 2000m2 building, he partitioned the building in 50m2 sections, renovated it and sold each sections. He has done this for a decade, at which point he asked his employer to fire him. His employer asked "why should I fire you , you do a good job", he replied "well, I make three times more money buying and re-selling properties than working full time for you as an employee".

---------- Post added 10-02-21 at 07:48 ----------

Back to cameras, I've seen some Canon customers upgrade from a 5DII to a 5DIII to a 5DIV to an EOS R and to a EOS R5.
Some Fuji customers upgraded from X-T2 to X-Pro3 to XT-30 to XT-4. I'm not so sure how much image quality improvements they got for their money. Personally I can't tell the difference between images from an X-T2 and images from an XT-4, even zoomed in at 100%, I can't tell. I went to the camera shop asking for prices for an X-T2, he told me "no you should get an XT-4" , I asked "Why should I get an XT-4?" he replied "because it's the latest model" and I asked again "What pictures the XT4 can take that the XT2 can't take?" he didn't know what to say.

[Kunzite]

Only after the K-3iii is released, won’t we know how much technology {processor used, bus used, etc} will be worth transferring - whether they alone justify another new “FF” body?

Not at all.
The processor and the new accelerator are able to cope with 12fps shooting of 26MP images. This is clearly faster than what the K-1 II can do.
The card write speed is improved, with one UHS-II slot.
The autofocus has larger coverage and more AF points. The coverage on the K-1 is not so good.
and so on.

Then, there are the things not directly related to the K-3 III: just by using a new sensor, the camera would get a nice performance boost.

A new FF DSLR is well justified. And promised.

[MetteHHH]

Wildlife is seasonal. Why buy a camera and not use it for one year, expect if that's for playing with a new toy?

Whaaaat? Yes, critters are seasonal, but every season has its own! Every month without the K3III, I am missing out on some: Bullfinches and hawfinches in the snow, winter visits from bewick's swans and rough-legged buzzards, mating behaviour in the water fowl, migrating short eared owls, bearded tits in early spring, the perch-singing of the first bluethroats, waders coming through in spring, cranes flying through, raptor migration, deer fawns, pollinators and migrating butterflies, summer seals - and then the autumn migration begins.

I won't let my new toy gather dust, but the sooner it arrives the better!

I assume there will be six groups of buyers:
1. those who need to upgrade because their existing setup isn't enough
2. those who can't resist to have the new toy at home
3. those who wait for other users to test and report and then make decision
4. those who plan purchase by their shooting opportunity (aka bird shooters)
5. those who plan purchase by price cuts and
6. new users who do their research and wish to enter photography or switch from other brands for some of the niche qualities of Pentax system

Your groups overlap. I find myself solidly in 1, 2 and 4, with bits of the others sneaking in except for 6.

[Ishpuini]

Add another group for me:
7. Those that are waiting for an excuse to have their current camera converted to IR/Full Spectrum because it's still a great camera but they don't use it anymore because they have the new one...

[RobA_Oz]

Yes, I agree. There are advantages and disadvantages. Cameras and lenses come with incremental improvements, and there is the uncertainty of what future technological evolution will be. It's double guessing to figure if a new camera model has corner stone technology or not. Back when the K7 (CCD?) was released, it was hardly possible to know that the next model K5 (CMOS sensor) would offer 1 stop better noise performance. Looking backward, it is obvious that K7 was a small improvement over K20 (if any at all), and the K5 series was a significant improvement in noise performance. Now, I'd say, BSI vs FSI CMOS is the interesting change. Pentax KP has, presumably, an FSI CMOS sensor, and K33 has a BSI dual gain sensor (1 stop better at high ISO).[COLOR=Silver]

The K7 sensor was the same as in the K20D (Samsung 14.7MP CMOS), but other than that I take your point.

But, why are we debating people’s individual choices when it comes to camera gear? Those of us who choose Pentax gear are constantly derided by people who assert their superiority by promoting other brands, so let’s not fall into the same trap of judging others’ motives or wisdom, whether buying the latest and often, or a generation older and infrequently. Inverted snobbery is as futile and self-centred as the other form.

[Rondec]

I think the biggest group of people who are waiting on the K-3 III are those who currently are using a K-3 I or II and who felt as though they weren't satisfied with the KP as a replacement. Whether it is dual slots, buffer size, frame rate, there were plenty of folks who said that the KP wasn't adequate for their needs and continued shooting with a K3 of some sort. Those K3s are getting a little bit old and are needing to be replaced.

[ffking]

7. Those that are waiting for an excuse to have their current camera converted to IR/Full Spectrum because it's still a great camera but they don't use it anymore because they have the new one...

I love a good circular argument!

[ThorSanchez]

I agree. Yet, I've noticed, at the supermarket, a bag of 5kg of lentils cost 10 Euros, bags of 500gr of the same lentils cost 2 euros. The vast majority of people buy 500gr many times over a 1 year period, overall it costs them more but they are still convinced 500gr bags are cheaper. I've noticed the same thing in the real estate in Europe. Small flats (<100m2) cost 3500 euros per m2, and large flats cost 2500 Euros/m2, it's even possible to get down to 1000 Euros/m2 for really large properties. Yet, most people buy the small flats and real estate agencies have a hard time finding buyers for large properties. A friend of mine bought a 2000m2 building, he partitioned the building in 50m2 sections, renovated it and sold each sections. He has done this for a decade, at which point he asked his employer to fire him. His employer asked "why should I fire you , you do a good job", he replied "well, I make three times more money buying and re-selling properties than working full time for you as an employee".

Perhaps most folks don't want to buy all their groceries in bulk since the cost would all be up front, some of it would go bad before they can use it, they would have to buy a cruise ship sized American SUV to haul it all home, and then find a place to store it all. And if they buy 50 kg of something they end up not liking, they have to throw it all away or watch it sit, taking up half the pantry for five years. All so they can save three cents a kilogram.


Instead, they buy a reasonable amount of stuff for a reasonable price that fits their requirements at the time.

---------- Post added 10-02-21 at 07:48 ----------

Back to cameras, I've seen some Canon customers upgrade from a 5DII to a 5DIII to a 5DIV to an EOS R and to a EOS R5.
Some Fuji customers upgraded from X-T2 to X-Pro3 to XT-30 to XT-4. I'm not so sure how much image quality improvements they got for their money. Personally I can't tell the difference between images from an X-T2 and images from an XT-4, even zoomed in at 100%, I can't tell. I went to the camera shop asking for prices for an X-T2, he told me "no you should get an XT-4" , I asked "Why should I get an XT-4?" he replied "because it's the latest model" and I asked again "What pictures the XT4 can take that the XT2 can't take?" he didn't know what to say.

First, the salesman is not very good since he missed that the XT-4 added IBIS so you could take better low-light photos. And it has a bunch of 4K video improvements which probably matter to Fuji buyers who look for cameras that can do both stills and video. Again, maybe for someone who only cares about 50Mp+ stills that you print at massive sizes a 10-year-old high end camera still works well. But for a lot of other people 10 years of advancements in electronics can be a very nice step up.

---------- Post added 02-10-21 at 07:17 AM ----------

I think the biggest group of people who are waiting on the K-3 III are those who currently are using a K-3 I or II and who felt as though they weren't satisfied with the KP as a replacement. Whether it is dual slots, buffer size, frame rate, there were plenty of folks who said that the KP wasn't adequate for their needs and continued shooting with a K3 of some sort. Those K3s are getting a little bit old and are needing to be replaced.

C'mon, there are tens or even dozens of us who have been stubbornly holding out, waiting for Pentax to release a D500-beater. That's not an insignificant fraction of Pentax' North American user base.

[biz-engineer]

Instead, they buy a reasonable amount of stuff for a reasonable price that fits their requirements at the time.

People have cognitive biases, it's been proven many times. A guy I met a while ago was pointing out I'm throwing money out of the window because I own an expensive camera and lenses. Well, he drink alcohol and smoke regularly, I didn't comment on his criticism but I realized he spends more money on alcoholic drinks and cigarettes than I spend on cameras. Sometimes, people say things that are completely non-sense, but for them it's logical.

---------- Post added 10-02-21 at 13:52 ----------

Perhaps most folks don't want to buy all their groceries in bulk since the cost would all be up front, some of it would go bad before they can use it

Rice and all dried food doesn't go bad that easily. You could buy it for a year and not only save money but also save time by reducing how often you go to queue at the grocery store.

[Serkevan]

People have cognitive biases, it's been proven many times.

Yup, no one is free from them.

[TER-OR]

I just want to upgrade from my K5D. The K3II is still fantastic and has its built-in GPS so I can use the ring flash.
While the K5 still works, the K3II with the same lenses works better.
While the K5 produces very pleasing film-like images, its autofocus is lacking compared with the newer bodies meaning I miss shots once in a while. Often I get only one chance to get an image in the field.
While the K5 was built like a rock hammer, it is starting to show its age.

So I have high hopes for the K3III. It will likely receive the DA300 in the field. Though I will compare it with the K3II for macro use.

[gatorguy]

People have cognitive biases, it's been proven many times. A guy I met a while ago was pointing out I'm throwing money out of the window because I own an expensive camera and lenses. Well, he drink alcohol and smoke regularly, I didn't comment on his criticism but I realized he spends more money on alcoholic drinks and cigarettes than I spend on cameras.

That's an argument I made to my wife a couple of months ago.

At one point I had decided to buy a flats boat, custom built and a bit north of $55K. Probably would have required a truck upgrade too. She was OK with it even if not enthused. But I didn't.

My camera hobby has cost much less, and a weekend out with the camera is a whole lot easier, more spur of the moment, and not nearly as expensive as a weekend date with the boat. Clean up when I get home? Well the camera gear on the dining room table causes less damage than the boat would have.

[Rondec]

People have cognitive biases, it's been proven many times. A guy I met a while ago was pointing out I'm throwing money out of the window because I own an expensive camera and lenses. Well, he drink alcohol and smoke regularly, I didn't comment on his criticism but I realized he spends more money on alcoholic drinks and cigarettes than I spend on cameras. Sometimes, people say things that are completely non-sense, but for them it's logical.

---------- Post added 10-02-21 at 13:52 ----------


Rice and all dried food doesn't go bad that easily. You could buy it for a year and not only save money but also save time by reducing how often you go to queue at the grocery store.

I buy rice, flour and bread flour in 25 pound bags. I also have five kids and 25 pounds doesn't last a year by any means.

[ecostigny]

Hey, the K10 was gold (just)

-Eric

The K-5 was also gold 10 years ago: Pentax K-5 In-depth Review: Digital Photography Review

---------- Post added 02-10-21 at 09:48 AM ----------

I just want to upgrade from my K5D. The K3II is still fantastic and has its built-in GPS so I can use the ring flash.
While the K5 still works, the K3II with the same lenses works better.
While the K5 produces very pleasing film-like images, its autofocus is lacking compared with the newer bodies meaning I miss shots once in a while. Often I get only one chance to get an image in the field.
While the K5 was built like a rock hammer, it is starting to show its age.

So I have high hopes for the K3III. It will likely receive the DA300 in the field. Though I will compare it with the K3II for macro use.

I feel the same way regarding my K-5. It's an excellent camera, but it's still 10 years old. I'm looking forward to the potential improvements in autofocus and high ISO performance with the K-3 III.