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02-26-2021, 11:41 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The AF points display seems similar to the K-1's, and unfortunately the black squares aren't very visible... but let's see on the actual camera.
Mmm, till now I'm happy with the K-1 AF points. Certainly better than the K5's. Maybe exactly the same shape but in red, a mix between K5 and K1 ? But please no return to K5 way...

02-26-2021, 01:10 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm, till now I'm happy with the K-1 AF points. Certainly better than the K5's. Maybe exactly the same shape but in red, a mix between K5 and K1 ? But please no return to K5 way...
At least as important as number of points is the ability to process them.
I often have my KP set to single-point focusing because it is so much quicker than with the full 27 points.
02-28-2021, 01:57 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
At least as important as number of points is the ability to process them.
I often have my KP set to single-point focusing because it is so much quicker than with the full 27 points.
If point choosing is easy and fast enough there will be not great need of many focus points working together, I suppose
02-28-2021, 02:19 AM   #34
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Having "intelligent" af only in green mode (scene analyze auto) is imho a very bad idea if thats really the case. Green mode locks all sorts of settings and isn't suitable for creative control. There are many reasons, and the norm with other brands, to have intelligent af settings and manual aperture control or custom image style for instance. I know that Pentax already use some face detection with green mode but I've never used it since I don't shoot green mode because it locks all important settings down.

There's another aspect of intelligent AF with dslr's and that is that a critical part of the usability is the gui showing and controlling what is in focus. A dslr can't do this in a reasonable way. You will never feel fully in control of the camera. (not saying milcs give the sense of full control yet). It's just one of those trade offs for an ovf, unless Pentax manages to significantly innovate the ovf that is.

02-28-2021, 03:30 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Having "intelligent" af only in green mode (scene analyze auto) is imho a very bad idea if thats really the case. Green mode locks all sorts of settings and isn't suitable for creative control. There are many reasons, and the norm with other brands, to have intelligent af settings and manual aperture control or custom image style for instance. I know that Pentax already use some face detection with green mode but I've never used it since I don't shoot green mode because it locks all important settings down.

There's another aspect of intelligent AF with dslr's and that is that a critical part of the usability is the gui showing and controlling what is in focus. A dslr can't do this in a reasonable way. You will never feel fully in control of the camera. (not saying milcs give the sense of full control yet). It's just one of those trade offs for an ovf, unless Pentax manages to significantly innovate the ovf that is.
Sure. And it is a bit early to go there yet before this actually has been tried. And we know more.
02-28-2021, 03:55 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Having "intelligent" af only in green mode (scene analyze auto) is imho a very bad idea if thats really the case. Green mode locks all sorts of settings and isn't suitable for creative control. There are many reasons, and the norm with other brands, to have intelligent af settings and manual aperture control or custom image style for instance. I know that Pentax already use some face detection with green mode but I've never used it since I don't shoot green mode because it locks all important settings down.
Yuh - I can see their logic, perhaps, in terms of automation vs control, but I agree that the conclusion (as represented here) seems wrong- there are, after all, plenty of semi-automated features on a modern camera, not just full auto or full manual.
02-28-2021, 04:06 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm, till now I'm happy with the K-1 AF points. Certainly better than the K5's. Maybe exactly the same shape but in red, a mix between K5 and K1 ? But please no return to K5 way...
I like the way they are only K-1 also. Very effective and you really see what is going on.

One add to focusing. I’v seen that when you use joystick it will move focus area, which seems something like my 9 focus point box. This is the area the camera will focus. I can just think about it now, but it is very likely that in green mode you can use joystic and determine where it will lock to. Ofcoursetherewill be other modes too. So all in all good news.

About those black/red boxes. You can turn them on/off.

02-28-2021, 04:21 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Yuh - I can see their logic, perhaps, in terms of automation vs control, but I agree that the conclusion (as represented here) seems wrong- there are, after all, plenty of semi-automated features on a modern camera, not just full auto or full manual.
They must be aware that they are doing something unusual when locking picture control and aperture triangle together with af scene detection. Pentax does allow for great variety of automatic vs manual in all sorts of other ways I wonder why they consider af as being so different.

The GR has similar oddity in that face detect is activated by setting the picture style to portrait. So again you get locked colour settings with the af mode! I can imagine that it's just the way things worked ages ago with the early point and shoots etc. No excuse for keeping in that way now though. They would effectively be wasting all that af progress since more demanding photographers are unlikely to accept green mode in exchange of intelligent AF.
02-28-2021, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Having "intelligent" af only in green mode (scene analyze auto) is imho a very bad idea if thats really the case. Green mode locks all sorts of settings and isn't suitable for creative control. There are many reasons, and the norm with other brands, to have intelligent af settings and manual aperture control or custom image style for instance. I know that Pentax already use some face detection with green mode but I've never used it since I don't shoot green mode because it locks all important settings down.

There's another aspect of intelligent AF with dslr's and that is that a critical part of the usability is the gui showing and controlling what is in focus. A dslr can't do this in a reasonable way. You will never feel fully in control of the camera. (not saying milcs give the sense of full control yet). It's just one of those trade offs for an ovf, unless Pentax manages to significantly innovate the ovf that is.
"Intelligent" af only in green mode - where did you get that idea? People who watched and understood the videos are saying otherwise.

And... do I see another "a dslr can't do this", after we just found out how a DSLR could do something people said it can only be done my mirrorless? (eye and bird AF).
Hmm...
02-28-2021, 05:49 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
They must be aware that they are doing something unusual when locking picture control and aperture triangle together with af scene detection. Pentax does allow for great variety of automatic vs manual in all sorts of other ways I wonder why they consider af as being so different.

The GR has similar oddity in that face detect is activated by setting the picture style to portrait. So again you get locked colour settings with the af mode! I can imagine that it's just the way things worked ages ago with the early point and shoots etc. No excuse for keeping in that way now though. They would effectively be wasting all that af progress since more demanding photographers are unlikely to accept green mode in exchange of intelligent AF.
First, you have quite a momentum in constructing strawmen... whatever
Second, I don't think this is the case, we will know more soon when it is released.
Third, and if it was so, it just shows how the full automatic AF mode can also be seen: you hand over the control to the canera, it's not different than a point and shoot approach any way Point it at a crowd of people and let the camera decide which eye to focus on. A shrewdness of apes, a cete of badgers, a cloud of bats, a sloth of bears, a swarm of bees, a gang of buffalos, a caravan of camels, a clowder of cats or a litter of kittens? The AI chooses the focus point
02-28-2021, 05:49 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Intelligent" af only in green mode - where did you get that idea? People who watched and understood the videos are saying otherwise.


QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Having "intelligent" af only in green mode (scene analyze auto) is imho a very bad idea if thats really the case.
Bolded for clarity

I read someone suggesting that intelligent af would only be available in auto mode. Can't find the post now but doesn't the write up say so, on my way out so can't check. Current Pentax and Ricoh implementations also have face detect but as mentioned only in auto mode.
02-28-2021, 06:12 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Bolded for clarity

I read someone suggesting that intelligent af would only be available in auto mode. Can't find the post now but doesn't the write up say so, on my way out so can't check. Current Pentax and Ricoh implementations also have face detect but as mentioned only in auto mode.
I think that has been brought up, and I do remember also reading something like that. But we do not know what that does mean exactly. And that was said to work in LV mode where we have even now ‘face detection’. This is completely new info from week a go that they do have this eye detection for OVF too. So the best thing would be to wait until it is out there(here). And we get to see it in action.
02-28-2021, 06:17 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Bolded for clarity

I read someone suggesting that intelligent af would only be available in auto mode. Can't find the post now but doesn't the write up say so, on my way out so can't check. Current Pentax and Ricoh implementations also have face detect but as mentioned only in auto mode.
Are you sure you read that? Or perhaps you read kwb's post from the previous page, where he was able to find out that the AI-based recognition is available in "Auto AF Points and Zone Select"?
Do you know what those modes are?
02-28-2021, 07:14 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Current Pentax and Ricoh implementations also have face detect but as mentioned only in auto mode.
My K-3 manual doesn't mention auto mode regarding the face detect feature but, it is mentioned that it is a selectable feature of Live View. I can't imagine Ricoh/Pentax removing its selectability in newer cameras. I do know it is selected automatically when in Green Mode Live View if faces are detected. Face Detect is also a selectable feature of Live View (contrast AF) from several modes including Manual. So at least as far back as the K-3 face detect was and is a selectable AF feature in Live View.
02-28-2021, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #45
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I caution all to be careful about inferring absolutes from these Japanese language videos/interviews. It's a tricky language to translate into English or other western languages. Japanese speakers on this forum have pointed this out....
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