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02-22-2021, 04:02 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pretty clear that they needed to do another manufacturing run on the FA 77. They decided to do it with the HD coating. Some of the things mentioned on this thread (weather sealing, in lens motor) would have taken a major re-do of the lens and clearly Pentax wasn't prepared to do that.
I dunno if throwing a gasket or two necessarily requires anything major. It's not like Pentax didn't do that in the past with 18-55 or something. Also quick shift focus would be nice.

02-22-2021, 04:08 AM   #32
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It's good new that the price of the refreshed lens is a bit lower, because it will undercut all these sellers speculating on the limited stock of the original FA limited lenses. Since there is almost not stock of Ltd, the 31 and 77 are being sold up to 1500 euros. The rumored $799 price HD 77 ltd from fresh product batches will stop such speculation acts. At one point I wanted to buy limited kit, but those crazy prices in Europe stopped me from doing so.

---------- Post added 22-02-21 at 12:11 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If I wanted the 77 Limited I'd have one already. I might've been interested in a version with less fringing and a DC motor.
You don't know yet the optical characteristics of the newly coated lens. If the improvement is the same as on the HD FA 35 2, it's rather substantial. If you didn't buy the HD FA 35 f2 , I'd recommend to get one.
02-22-2021, 04:12 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Or he knows how to cleverly use a lens. This LOCA appears at wide open shots with glaring high contrast in the background, like naked branches against an overlit sky. While for sure such situations can not be avoided 100% it still is questionable to photograph something like a three dimensional tree wide open. My photographer experience would suggest me to close down the lens, which to a big degree also eliminates LOCA. The tests show that beside that CA is practically not evident on the focus plane. Some lateral CA in the OOF area might help to add some depth rendering to the images. This is actually what these not overcorrected lenses have been always loved for.
It's not LOCA that is the issue in my experience, it's the reflections being purple - It happens often in the plane of focus if you're taking portraits in the sun. It's relatively easy to work around it and corrections tend to do a fairly good job (unless you end up with a gob of purple on the subject's nose because there was one drop of sweat there ), so the lens is still top shelf for me... I don't care about one or two photos needing extra correction; the 3D pop, bokeh and detail drop jaws whenever I show the photos off.

---------- Post added 02-22-21 at 04:15 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's good new that the price of the refreshed lens is a bit lower, because it will undercut all these sellers speculating on the limited stock of the original FA limited lenses. Since there is almost not stock of Ltd, the 31 and 77 are being sold up to 1500 euros. The rumored $799 price HD 77 ltd from fresh product batches will stop such speculation acts. At one point I wanted to buy limited kit, but those crazy prices in Europe stopped me from doing so.
The 31 is very expensive, I don't think I've seen any copy under 900€ used (and they are few and far between copies, period). But it's 1500€ new, so...
However, the 77 I got a year ago for 350€ (silver, MIJ low serial). I paid 360€ for the 43 as well (also silver MIJ), though I admit I got a big outlier deal on the 77.
02-22-2021, 04:17 AM - 3 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
It's not LOCA that is the issue in my experience, it's the reflections being purple - It happens often in the plane of focus if you're taking portraits in the sun. It's relatively easy to work around it and corrections tend to do a fairly good job (unless you end up with a gob of purple on the subject's nose because there was one drop of sweat there ), so the lens is still top shelf for me... I don't care about one or two photos needing extra correction; the 3D pop, bokeh and detail drop jaws whenever I show the photos off.

---------- Post added 02-22-21 at 04:15 AM ----------



The 31 is very expensive, I don't think I've seen any copy under 900€ used (and they are few and far between copies, period). But it's 1500€ new, so...
However, the 77 I got a year ago for 350€ (silver, MIJ low serial). I paid 360€ for the 43 as well (also silver MIJ), though I admit I got a big outlier deal on the 77.
Thanks for adding first hand experience in! Does it happen only fully open? Sure, for portraits this could sometimes mean some PP, but I think there is nothing to add to your statement that this is something easily corrected.

Edit: all in all, this was uncalled for. Just forming a fresh wave of LBA, it would probably be a great short tele on the KP... no...resist...

02-22-2021, 04:23 AM - 4 Likes   #35
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There are a few things that I find interesting about this release.

- There have been suggestions that Ricoh has been trying to position Pentax as a kind of Japanese Leica. This lens indicates very much otherwise. The lens is a updated version of an iconic lens. So far, so Leica. They are also making this great lens more affordable. This is not like Leica at all.
- I heard in a talk For Pentax 100 about the FA Limiteds that they had tried to update them in the same way as the DA Limiteds but the HD coating messed up the character of the lens so they gave up. If they have decided to go ahead with it now, that means it is a different HD coating than they had before. This makes sense. We know that Pentax had several versions of coating branded as SMC over the years. I guess we are now seeing a second or possibly third HD coating formula to make this possible.
- It seems that getting hold of semiconductors is tough right now. This seems like a product that could be brought to market without having to worry about that.
- Back to the price. Doesn't it seem almost revolutionary for a new lens to cost less than its predecessor? The whole industry had been pushing up prices, but here is Ricoh making a lens more affordable.
- I have a nice low serial number copy of a MIJ FA77 and I can say that the purple fringing is very evident at max aperture. It's easy enough to stop down to avoid. Knowing your equipment and its limitations is part of photography in my opinion, so I've never been that bothered about it. But that is really the only drawback of the lens. If that is fixed, it is a really compelling lens even now.
- Some people were hoping that this had been made to "modern" standards. Should it have been WR, SDM and with a faster new formula? So like the DFA* 85mm then. That was literally the last lens Ricoh released.

I won't be upgrading my FA77 unless it gets damaged, but I guess this lens will provide a bit fo a boost in sales and continue to be a key part of what makes K-mount a unique system.
02-22-2021, 04:26 AM - 2 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Thanks for adding first hand experience in! Does it happen only fully open? Sure, for portraits this could sometimes mean some PP, but I think there is nothing to add to your statement that this is something easily corrected.
Keep in mind that Covid stuff has kept me from using the lens too much, to my displeasure . In my limited experience, it's mostly wide open or whereabouts - f/5.6 is a very good remedy already and the lens keeps being excellent at subject separation at f/11 anyway so there's always that option (which I've done, with flash, taking photos of my brother and a couple friends at the beach - but I don't upload photos of my friends as a rule, so no examples ). Honestly, even the wide-open shots where aberrations show up are so beautiful otherwise... it's worth the effort to manually correct the fringing and, IMO, no one blows the blemishes out of proportion more than the person behind the camera anyway


Yes, I gush about the lens. It's that good!
02-22-2021, 04:26 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Thanks for adding first hand experience in! Does it happen only fully open? Sure, for portraits this could sometimes mean some PP, but I think there is nothing to add to your statement that this is something easily corrected.

Edit: all in all, this was uncalled for. Just forming a fresh wave of LBA, it would probably be a great short tele on the KP... no...resist...
This is the function for me. A very nice short tele lens on APS-C that is the longest thing I need when I go on holiday somewhere. DA15 + DA20-40 + FA77 has me covered for most things without too much weight or too many lens changes.
02-22-2021, 04:29 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
There are a few things that I find interesting about this release.

- There have been suggestions that Ricoh has been trying to position Pentax as a kind of Japanese Leica. This lens indicates very much otherwise. The lens is a updated version of an iconic lens. So far, so Leica. They are also making this great lens more affordable. This is not like Leica at all.
- I heard in a talk For Pentax 100 about the FA Limiteds that they had tried to update them in the same way as the DA Limiteds but the HD coating messed up the character of the lens so they gave up. If they have decided to go ahead with it now, that means it is a different HD coating than they had before. This makes sense. We know that Pentax had several versions of coating branded as SMC over the years. I guess we are now seeing a second or possibly third HD coating formula to make this possible.
- It seems that getting hold of semiconductors is tough right now. This seems like a product that could be brought to market without having to worry about that.
- Back to the price. Doesn't it seem almost revolutionary for a new lens to cost less than its predecessor? The whole industry had been pushing up prices, but here is Ricoh making a lens more affordable.
- I have a nice low serial number copy of a MIJ FA77 and I can say that the purple fringing is very evident at max aperture. It's easy enough to stop down to avoid. Knowing your equipment and its limitations is part of photography in my opinion, so I've never been that bothered about it. But that is really the only drawback of the lens. If that is fixed, it is a really compelling lens even now.
- Some people were hoping that this had been made to "modern" standards. Should it have been WR, SDM and with a faster new formula? So like the DFA* 85mm then. That was literally the last lens Ricoh released.

I won't be upgrading my FA77 unless it gets damaged, but I guess this lens will provide a bit fo a boost in sales and continue to be a key part of what makes K-mount a unique system.
Agreed on all counts - and the HD FA 35/2 is a precedent here... at least in Europe, at 400€ it's a whopping 100€ (maybe even 200€? Don't remember honestly) cheaper than the SMC was before being discontinued!

02-22-2021, 04:33 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Map camera did some test showing how HD supposedly improved the fringing on the FA 35mm f2. Scroll down to the shot of water and a jetty/pier in the middle of this page.

?PENTAX?FA35mmF2??? | THE MAP TIMES
Wow, that looks very promising!
02-22-2021, 04:33 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You don't know yet the optical characteristics of the newly coated lens. If the improvement is the same as on the HD FA 35 2, it's rather substantial. If you didn't buy the HD FA 35 f2 , I'd recommend to get one.
True, I don't. It's still a screw drive lens (no visible change on the lens' barrel), and that's why I don't have the FA 35mm (despite its optics).

But this isn't about me; it makes sense to update the 77mm, and put their lens development effort into actual gaps.
02-22-2021, 04:38 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The 31 is very expensive, I don't think I've seen any copy under 900€ used (and they are few and far between copies, period). But it's 1500€ new, so...
Iirc, the 31 was at $799 briefly, for about a month or two, might be two years back now or so. New below used, at that time. Used started dipping a little bit shortly after that, but it was all over as soon as the "new" price went back up.

Never quite figured out why that happened. I reasoned it must have been a stock clearance rumour.

Interestingly, it used to be claimed at various times that FA Limited were just being sold from the warehouse, no running production. If an HD version is coming, that's obviously now untrue, for the time being.
02-22-2021, 04:38 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
- Some people were hoping that this had been made to "modern" standards. Should it have been WR, SDM and with a faster new formula? So like the DFA* 85mm then. That was literally the last lens Ricoh released.
This is an exaggeration. I don't see why expecting a wr version with a motor and qsf of the 77 is so unreasonable. Not everyone wants (or can afford) to lug the fat 85 around. I certainly would like a compact portrait lens that isn't mechanically antiquated. Unfortunately Pentax doesn't have such offering, and it looks like it won't have one anytime soon.

Ricoh sees those HD-revisions as quick wins. I don't share this view.
02-22-2021, 04:40 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
I
You are then either poor sighted, very uncritical or shoot such a limited set of subjects that you never stress the lens. It still seems like a beautiful lens though!
I'll admit that I don't shoot out of focus branches against a totally burnt out, overexposed sky wide open
The 77 Limted is one of the sharpest lenses I've ever seen. Up there with the FA* 200 Macro....
02-22-2021, 04:41 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
- It seems that getting hold of semiconductors is tough right now. This seems like a product that could be brought to market without having to worry about that.
That makes a lot of sense. I think Ricoh has been fairly good overall at adjusting to industry and market during COVID-19.
02-22-2021, 04:44 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
- I heard in a talk For Pentax 100 about the FA Limiteds that they had tried to update them in the same way as the DA Limiteds but the HD coating messed up the character of the lens so they gave up. If they have decided to go ahead with it now, that means it is a different HD coating than they had before.
Either they changed the coating or the criteria for changing the ltds. Producing new smcs might have been very expensive or difficult. The choice is then to end production or put out hd coated versions regardless. Personally I cant imagine hd being that detrimental. Changes the look slightly however.
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