HD 77mm f/1.8 LTD!

**willdmo** · 06-21-2021, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by chessov

Fair point, but do we know how much bulk WR adds?
The AF is quick enough for me on the SMC 77mm, but of course it makes some noise.

Yes and no. the housing needs to have surfaces where you can put the sealings and the existing limiteds do not have it. A guide how it could be done is the 100mm DFA Macro lens which is WR, smallish and uses aluminium as shell

Mistral75 · 06-22-2021, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by chessov

Fair point, but do we know how much bulk WR adds?
(...)

Originally posted by willdmo

Yes and no. the housing needs to have surfaces where you can put the sealings and the existing limiteds do not have it. A guide how it could be done is the 100mm DFA Macro lens which is WR, smallish and uses aluminium as shell

Another guide is smc Pentax-DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8ED vs. HD Pentax-DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8ED WR: ø72mm and 466g (HD WR) vs. ø71mm and 440g (smc).

Ishpuini · 06-22-2021, 05:35 AM

The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? This rubber ring might move the optical construction ever so slightly further away from the sensor, thus necessitating the entire optical path to be redesigned? There could be other parts like that inside the lens. The DFA100Marco is WR indeed, but its optical path is designed to include the WR seals. The FA77 never was.

Disclaimer: this is not based on any actual knowledge of lens design.

**JensE** · 06-22-2021, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by Ishpuini

The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? This rubber ring might move the optical construction ever so slightly further away from the sensor, thus necessitating the entire optical path to be redesigned? There could be other parts like that inside the lens. The DFA100Marco is WR indeed, but its optical path is designed to include the WR seals. The FA77 never was.

Disclaimer: this is not based on any actual knowledge of lens design.

Originally posted by Ishpuini

The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? ...

I don't think this would be the difficult part - in the end, the flange sits flush metal-on-metal defining the register distance. As far as I remember, none of the existing WR lenses have aperture rings though, which would therefore need an unprecedented new design.

gazonk · 06-24-2021, 12:59 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Smolk

Although I like the small footprint of the DA Ltds - I have the 21mm, just ordered the 15mm, and also have the 40mm plus FA 43mm - I'm not sure about the DA 70mm vs FA 77mm. I read all the discussions and it's still a toss.

I guess the deciding factor will be whether I want to be FF proof. And I don't know yet.

I consider the DA70 "FF proof". I use it at least as often on K-1 as I used to on K-5. It only fails to be "FF proof" for the cases where you want corner-to-corner absolute sharpness. But that's not the typical use case for the DA70 at all, at least not for me!

So, despite all the love it gets, the FA77 will probably be the last of the three amigos I buy (I have none yet). I'll probably start with the FA31, since I have no fast lens in that range.

house · 06-24-2021, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

I consider the DA70 "FF proof". I use it at least as often on K-1 as I used to on K-5. It only fails to be "FF proof" for the cases where you want corner-to-corner absolute sharpness. But that's not the typical use case for the DA70 at all, at least not for me!

So, despite all the love it gets, the FA77 will probably be the last of the three amigos I buy (I have none yet). I'll probably start with the FA31, since I have no fast lens in that range.

The da70 is a nice people lens on ff. On apsc I do love it for architecture, its nice for framing details and compressed long views that make more abstract compositions.

The da70 doesn't work for architecture at all on ff. I also think it fails in other "normal" photography. Using it on ff you need to be very aware of its limitations which is a bit annoying.

Kunzite · 06-24-2021, 02:01 AM

I wasn't 100% happy with my DA 70mm on FF - corners and edges (obviously, well outside the APS-C area) were quite soft.

gazonk · 06-24-2021, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by house

The da70 doesn't work for architecture at all on ff. I also think it fails in other "normal" photography. Using it on ff you need to be very aware of its limitations which is a bit annoying.

Indeed, I’ve used it for architecture in APS-C myself and always loved the razor sharp images. You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105

house · 06-24-2021, 05:24 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by gazonk

Indeed, I’ve used it for architecture in APS-C myself and always loved the razor sharp images. You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105

70 is a nicer 50. 105 is great compression but still general purpose IMHO.

Indeed the da70 on apsc is very sharp. I think Ricoh called it soft rendering, which is kind of true despite being sharp.

On ff I've found that people shots at long distance, where context becomes more apparent and important, suffer from distractingly unsharp corners. In many such situations its not visible though.

PDish · 07-22-2021, 05:45 AM

Wow I just bought a 77mm from Japan a few months ago for I thought a good price($485). Made since now that the newly coated lenses are out. Oh well mine is flawless and made in Japan.

habsfanusa · 08-01-2021, 07:10 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by FozzFoster

From our lovely Twitter friend:
https://twitter.com/nokishita_c/status/1363675069084442628

PENTAX "HD PENTAX-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited" has been added to overseas retailers.
The currently registered price is $ 799.

I have the original 77mm (meaning prior to the new coating-release) and i see no reason to replace it. My sense is that CA can be easily addressed in post.

I bought mine used several years ago. It is my favourite lens; it was my first premium expensive lens and proved again that sometimes one gets what one pays for..
I love the 3-D feel of the images I get from the 77mm.
I also use it sometimes for landscapes.

reh321 · 08-01-2021, 08:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by gazonk

You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105

I find even 50mm to be a little long in "FF" - my personal preferences seem to lean towards wider lenses these days.

**Bonner04** · 08-06-2021, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by habsfanusa

I have the original 77mm (meaning prior to the new coating-release) and i see no reason to replace it. My sense is that CA can be easily addressed in post.

I bought mine used several years ago. It is my favourite lens; it was my first premium expensive lens and proved again that sometimes one gets what one pays for..
I love the 3-D feel of the images I get from the 77mm.
I also use it sometimes for landscapes.

Mine is soft until about f/3.5. I do not believe the new coating will help.

meneper · 12-16-2021, 05:52 AM

I had both 70 and 77mm. I decided to keep the 70mm because it was a bit sharper on the edges at f11

borisII · 12-16-2021, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Bonner04

Mine is soft until about f/3.5. I do not believe the new coating will help.

it's razor sharp from 2.8, soft only at 1.8

08-01-2021, 07:10 AM - 2 Likes	#236
habsfanusa Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 58	original 77mm lens Originally posted by FozzFoster From our lovely Twitter friend: https://twitter.com/nokishita_c/status/1363675069084442628 PENTAX "HD PENTAX-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited" has been added to overseas retailers. The currently registered price is $ 799. I have the original 77mm (meaning prior to the new coating-release) and i see no reason to replace it. My sense is that CA can be easily addressed in post. I bought mine used several years ago. It is my favourite lens; it was my first premium expensive lens and proved again that sometimes one gets what one pays for.. I love the 3-D feel of the images I get from the 77mm. I also use it sometimes for landscapes.

08-06-2021, 06:59 PM	#238
Bonner04 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Ventura, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 685	77 Wide Open Originally posted by habsfanusa I have the original 77mm (meaning prior to the new coating-release) and i see no reason to replace it. My sense is that CA can be easily addressed in post. I bought mine used several years ago. It is my favourite lens; it was my first premium expensive lens and proved again that sometimes one gets what one pays for.. I love the 3-D feel of the images I get from the 77mm. I also use it sometimes for landscapes. Mine is soft until about f/3.5. I do not believe the new coating will help.

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06-21-2021, 11:36 AM	#226
willdmo Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 389	Originally posted by chessov Fair point, but do we know how much bulk WR adds? The AF is quick enough for me on the SMC 77mm, but of course it makes some noise. Yes and no. the housing needs to have surfaces where you can put the sealings and the existing limiteds do not have it. A guide how it could be done is the 100mm DFA Macro lens which is WR, smallish and uses aluminium as shell

06-22-2021, 03:18 AM	#227
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by chessov Fair point, but do we know how much bulk WR adds? (...) Originally posted by willdmo Yes and no. the housing needs to have surfaces where you can put the sealings and the existing limiteds do not have it. A guide how it could be done is the 100mm DFA Macro lens which is WR, smallish and uses aluminium as shell Another guide is smc Pentax-DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8ED vs. HD Pentax-DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8ED WR: ø72mm and 466g (HD WR) vs. ø71mm and 440g (smc).

06-22-2021, 05:35 AM	#228
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? This rubber ring might move the optical construction ever so slightly further away from the sensor, thus necessitating the entire optical path to be redesigned? There could be other parts like that inside the lens. The DFA100Marco is WR indeed, but its optical path is designed to include the WR seals. The FA77 never was. Disclaimer: this is not based on any actual knowledge of lens design.

06-22-2021, 05:48 AM	#229
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by Ishpuini The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? This rubber ring might move the optical construction ever so slightly further away from the sensor, thus necessitating the entire optical path to be redesigned? There could be other parts like that inside the lens. The DFA100Marco is WR indeed, but its optical path is designed to include the WR seals. The FA77 never was. Disclaimer: this is not based on any actual knowledge of lens design. Originally posted by Ishpuini The problem for sealing the FA77 could be as simple as not being able to include the essential rubber lens mount seal? ... I don't think this would be the difficult part - in the end, the flange sits flush metal-on-metal defining the register distance. As far as I remember, none of the existing WR lenses have aperture rings though, which would therefore need an unprecedented new design.

06-24-2021, 12:59 AM - 1 Like	#230
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Smolk Although I like the small footprint of the DA Ltds - I have the 21mm, just ordered the 15mm, and also have the 40mm plus FA 43mm - I'm not sure about the DA 70mm vs FA 77mm. I read all the discussions and it's still a toss. I guess the deciding factor will be whether I want to be FF proof. And I don't know yet. I consider the DA70 "FF proof". I use it at least as often on K-1 as I used to on K-5. It only fails to be "FF proof" for the cases where you want corner-to-corner absolute sharpness. But that's not the typical use case for the DA70 at all, at least not for me! So, despite all the love it gets, the FA77 will probably be the last of the three amigos I buy (I have none yet). I'll probably start with the FA31, since I have no fast lens in that range.

06-24-2021, 01:36 AM	#231
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by gazonk I consider the DA70 "FF proof". I use it at least as often on K-1 as I used to on K-5. It only fails to be "FF proof" for the cases where you want corner-to-corner absolute sharpness. But that's not the typical use case for the DA70 at all, at least not for me! So, despite all the love it gets, the FA77 will probably be the last of the three amigos I buy (I have none yet). I'll probably start with the FA31, since I have no fast lens in that range. The da70 is a nice people lens on ff. On apsc I do love it for architecture, its nice for framing details and compressed long views that make more abstract compositions. The da70 doesn't work for architecture at all on ff. I also think it fails in other "normal" photography. Using it on ff you need to be very aware of its limitations which is a bit annoying.

06-24-2021, 02:01 AM	#232
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I wasn't 100% happy with my DA 70mm on FF - corners and edges (obviously, well outside the APS-C area) were quite soft.

06-24-2021, 05:02 AM	#233
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by house The da70 doesn't work for architecture at all on ff. I also think it fails in other "normal" photography. Using it on ff you need to be very aware of its limitations which is a bit annoying. Indeed, I’ve used it for architecture in APS-C myself and always loved the razor sharp images. You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105

06-24-2021, 05:24 AM - 2 Likes	#234
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by gazonk Indeed, I’ve used it for architecture in APS-C myself and always loved the razor sharp images. You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105 70 is a nicer 50. 105 is great compression but still general purpose IMHO. Indeed the da70 on apsc is very sharp. I think Ricoh called it soft rendering, which is kind of true despite being sharp. On ff I've found that people shots at long distance, where context becomes more apparent and important, suffer from distractingly unsharp corners. In many such situations its not visible though.

07-22-2021, 05:45 AM	#235
PDish Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Santa Rosa,CA Posts: 79	Wow I just bought a 77mm from Japan a few months ago for I thought a good price($485). Made since now that the newly coated lenses are out. Oh well mine is flawless and made in Japan.

08-01-2021, 08:26 AM - 1 Like	#237
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by gazonk You’re probably right that it’s much less of a general purpose lens on FF. OTOH 70mm is often a very useful FL, maybe more than 105 I find even 50mm to be a little long in "FF" - my personal preferences seem to lean towards wider lenses these days.

12-16-2021, 05:52 AM	#239
meneper New Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Posts: 7	I had both 70 and 77mm. I decided to keep the 70mm because it was a bit sharper on the edges at f11

12-16-2021, 12:59 PM	#240
borisII Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 323	Originally posted by Bonner04 Mine is soft until about f/3.5. I do not believe the new coating will help. it's razor sharp from 2.8, soft only at 1.8