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02-23-2021, 01:55 PM - 1 Like   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
No it isn't. The M85 is an OK lens, nothing special about it, really. The 77 is a very different beast with very different imaging properties.
If you aren't planning on going full frame, the DA70LTD is virtually indistinguishable from the 77. It's every bit as good a lens, though it doesn't cover full frame. Where I live, it is $400.00 cheaper than the 77. It will also give you a bit more focal length separation from your 85.
The DA70 is so useful on full frame that I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever need the 77. I guess if you do brick wall testing of it, you might detect soft corners. But they're not so obviously soft, even at f/2.4, that it's been a problem at all for the kind of shots I like to use it for. Vignetting is only rarely a problem (except when I make the mistake of fully extending the hood ), and correctable anyway.

02-23-2021, 02:02 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The DA70 is so useful on full frame that I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever need the 77. I guess if you do brick wall testing of it, you might detect soft corners. But they're not so obviously soft, even at f/2.4, that it's been a problem at all for the kind of shots I like to use it for. Vignetting is only rarely a problem (except when I make the mistake of fully extending the hood ), and correctable anyway.
I didn't spend a lot of time working with the 70 after I bought the K1. I already had the 77 so I just stopped using the 70. Poor thing, it and my 35LTD are sitting in boxes in my basement, ignored and unloved. It's cool that it works well enough on full frame, I did try it out on the K1 on a flat illumination test, but I really don't recall how much vignetting there was and how far it had to be stopped down to correct it, and I didn't keep the files.
02-23-2021, 02:15 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I didn't spend a lot of time working with the 70 after I bought the K1. I already had the 77 so I just stopped using the 70. Poor thing, it and my 35LTD are sitting in boxes in my basement, ignored and unloved. It's cool that it works well enough on full frame, I did try it out on the K1 on a flat illumination test, but I really don't recall how much vignetting there was and how far it had to be stopped down to correct it, and I didn't keep the files.
I've only noticed vignetting at f/2.4 on a few shots, mostly it's less noticeable than on the DFA 28-105 (where it can be pretty visible every now and then, but easy correctable).

I feel a little sorry for my 35 ltd, too, it was my favourite lens on K-5. I have used it every now and then for close ups, though, if you get close enough, there's no vignetting. And I use it (just slightly cropped) for "scanning" slides and negatives.
02-23-2021, 02:16 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
About 40mm from what I had measured last time I did that. For reference, the Nikon 20mm f/1.8G has a front element measuring about 47mm or whereabouts.
QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
45-50mm (I measured ~47mm but accuracy is not good due to the images I have available)
Both estimates indicate that the maximum aperture could be at least F2.8, but possibly F2. The old FA20, of which I have a copy that is quite good IMO, is F2.8 with a front element of 43mm diameter. Of course, the entrance pupil is used to determine the maximum F-number, not the size of the front element, and the DFA21 is in all likelihood a quite different design to the FA20.

I’m interested in how this lens turns out. Faster would be better with an optical viewfinder, but DoF becomes of less interest in this focal length, except perhaps for closer work.

02-23-2021, 02:37 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Both estimates indicate that the maximum aperture could be at least F2.8, but possibly F2. The old FA20, of which I have a copy that is quite good IMO, is F2.8 with a front element of 43mm diameter. Of course, the entrance pupil is used to determine the maximum F-number, not the size of the front element, and the DFA21 is in all likelihood a quite different design to the FA20.

I’m interested in how this lens turns out. Faster would be better with an optical viewfinder, but DoF becomes of less interest in this focal length, except perhaps for closer work.
They did mention out of focus areas and "snapshots" as a speciality of this lens. Since aperture induced bokeh is tricky at 21mm I assume it's a close focusing lens. Someone mentioned that the Nikkor 20mm f1.8 G ED has a 47mm front element incidentally they also mention the background blur at AF-S NIKKOR 20mm f/1.8G ED | Interchangeable Lens from Nikon

I'm super curious what they've come up with. I'm guessing da15ltd like performance based on their descriptions. I very much hope for better corner sharpness and field curvature however as I won't buy a DA15 like DFA21.
02-23-2021, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This should stop you from wanting to spend a pile of money.
All 4 of these were shot at the great equalizer f stop (f8) and are 100% crops.
Do note that this could be all lenses are equal at f/8 or all lenses look equally bad when I shoot with them.

M85



A*85



FA 77



DFA* 85



---------- Post added Feb 23rd, 2021 at 01:19 PM ----------



My understanding was that the M40 was pretty much built for the ME/ ME Super, which were very tiny bodies. An ME Super with a 40/2.8 could be carried in a jacket pocket without being overly noticeable. The focus ring takes some getting used to, but on the ME bodies, it's a nice compact lens as a carry around.
First of all. This is a bit weird. I know that many of my lenses already can produce result like this. Almos anything out there can. Not to try to offend you, ofcourse. But still I’m struggling with the key to why? This is not very demanding in any way, it is pretty, yes. And DOF is what it is. Yes. In this kind of shots and even many of more demanding these all will do just fine, very nice. But strength of DFA*85 or A*85 or FA 77 does not lie at here.it is when anything does get more demanding. Sharp and contras shots with little to none PF and edge to edge sharpness when shooting portrait, burst or even whole body. This is where differences will show. And that is why big €.€€€,€€.

I do agree, if one won’t need that, the it is waste of money.
02-23-2021, 02:50 PM   #142
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Right, and that half-inch is almost entirely covered by the focusing ring, making it much easier to handle. I shoot with both regularly; I prefer the focal length of the 40 and everything else (including image quality, which I find to be superb) on the 50 1.7.

Should probably let this thread get back to the subject it was meant for lest someone get cranky.

02-23-2021, 03:19 PM - 1 Like   #143
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It is the versatility of a lens that gives it its worth. What good is a lens that has excellent IQ at f/8 but is not good enough for the photographer at f/2.8 when it is needed to be used at that aperture? A D-FA 50/1.4 shot at f/1.4 will be much more appealing/usable than the same scene using the FA 50/1.4, and so it's up to the photographer to determine the investment cost/benefit of each lens.

The law of diminishing returns will eventually apply when comparing two already great lenses, though. The FA Ltds vs. HD-FA Ltds will no doubt be the subject of many a thread once the HD-FAs are released...

Last edited by Ash; 02-23-2021 at 03:40 PM. Reason: clarification
02-23-2021, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Typically, recently the conversion from Ricoh Japan's store pricing to Adorama/B&H pricing is about ₯140 per dollar. So that works out to:

31mm: $984
43mm: $549
77mm: $756
K-1 II J Limited: $2498
We already know, from Nokishita Camera, the US RRP of the HD Pentax-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited: $799.

Therefore the other RRPs could be:
  • HD Pentax-FA 31mm f/1.8 Limited: $1,049
  • HD Pentax-FA 43mm f/1.9 Limited: $599
02-23-2021, 03:48 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
First of all. This is a bit weird. I know that many of my lenses already can produce result like this. Almos anything out there can. Not to try to offend you, ofcourse. But still I’m struggling with the key to why? This is not very demanding in any way, it is pretty, yes. And DOF is what it is. Yes. In this kind of shots and even many of more demanding these all will do just fine, very nice. But strength of DFA*85 or A*85 or FA 77 does not lie at here.it is when anything does get more demanding. Sharp and contras shots with little to none PF and edge to edge sharpness when shooting portrait, burst or even whole body. This is where differences will show. And that is why big €.€€€,€€.

I do agree, if one won’t need that, the it is waste of money.
It's all I had in the moment.
02-23-2021, 10:52 PM - 4 Likes   #146
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Kii J Images are out. I feel a need to tell someone that this design is totally off. Just to make sure that it stays in Japan and will not influence general camera design.
02-23-2021, 11:07 PM - 3 Likes   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Kii J Images are out. I feel a need to tell someone that this design is totally off. Just to make sure that it stays in Japan and will not influence general camera design.
Feel free to share the images. Otherwise we'll just have to rely on your opinion and impeccable taste
02-23-2021, 11:18 PM - 6 Likes   #148
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You can tell they were styled by the same person who did the K-30 and the WG series compacts.

Note the little AOCO logo inlaid in the grip.

Also, all that business on top of the prism is going to be removable. If it is like the KP J-Limited, there may be an AOCO logo underneath.

J does not stand for Japan in this case. It is supposed to stand for Joker (in a pack of cards). However, the KP J was only ever sold in Japan. So zapp's eyes will probably be spared from ever seeing one in real life.

Images from other angles here, courtesy of Nokishita.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EBYSiXuBSap-PHRPk0mur-nfHkJHGnAj

Last edited by JPT; 02-23-2021 at 11:26 PM.
02-23-2021, 11:48 PM - 1 Like   #149
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A fat camera made even fatter. I like the AoC logo though.
02-23-2021, 11:58 PM - 1 Like   #150
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Some examples of Japanese custom cars for those unaware.





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