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11-19-2008, 07:53 AM   #16
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Yes,

This scoring list give only information about sensor performance and signal processing. The AF performance, the metering, the flash system the pixel count, weatherproof sealing don't bring in any point.

However, I find those information useful to max out the performance of sensor for better performance.

Regards,
Guillaume

11-19-2008, 07:55 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
Wow- the K10D easily holds its own amongst much more expensive competitors!

Seeing as how the data shown for the GX-20 and K20D is a fallacy (they're basically the same camera and I KNOW they have identical sensors), I am very sceptical as to how accurate the numbers are.
11-19-2008, 09:22 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
Seeing as how the data shown for the GX-20 and K20D is a fallacy (they're basically the same camera and I KNOW they have identical sensors), I am very sceptical as to how accurate the numbers are.
The results are really so close that any difference in the overall rating (a slightly better DR, S/N, and color depth) most probably results from incorrectly using a resolution of 15MP for the GX20 and 14,6 for the K20 when normalizing.

The curves tell us it's the same sensor indeed with some very small fluctuations that could be measurement errors and/or sample variations.
11-19-2008, 02:24 PM   #19
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there are those in life see a half glass water in two ways;

one lot always sees it as half empty = always negative

the others see it as half full = always positive

The K10D for me holds its own in IQ against much much more expensive counterparts - now a proven fact - my glass is half full

cheers

11-19-2008, 05:09 PM   #20
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The difference shown in the three examples may be within experimental error of the test used or to normal sample variations among the three cameras. Perhaps the web site gives the variation experienced in the test itself and how many bodies of each model were tested - if not, the difference between these numbers -by themselves - doesn't tell us very much.

Jer
11-19-2008, 05:30 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
Seeing as how the data shown for the GX-20 and K20D is a fallacy (they're basically the same camera and I KNOW they have identical sensors), I am very sceptical as to how accurate the numbers are.
The software is different tho. That might have something to do with it. The numbers are very similar.

It's a good idea for a site. They need a few key benchmarks to make it better.

like AF speed, accuracy, metering, etc.
11-19-2008, 07:08 PM   #22
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Don't really care much about the ratings by them. I've used both K10D and K20D, and I know the sensor on K20D is superior than the one on K10D.
11-19-2008, 08:01 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Don't really care much about the ratings by them. I've used both K10D and K20D, and I know the sensor on K20D is superior than the one on K10D.
+1, and I still use both cameras.

11-19-2008, 08:26 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Don't really care much about the ratings by them. I've used both K10D and K20D, and I know the sensor on K20D is superior than the one on K10D.
+2 on that.
11-20-2008, 06:15 AM   #25
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+3 - and I don't even have a K20D. I'm perfectly happy with my K10D and no camera that rates higher makes my camera any worse so I'm content!

(That said, take THAT Nikon D300!!!)

Still, it's an interesting site and I like what they're trying to do.
11-20-2008, 11:04 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Don't really care much about the ratings by them. I've used both K10D and K20D, and I know the sensor on K20D is superior than the one on K10D.
As I have 3xK10D's and 3xK20D's, I agree with Ken wholeheartedly. Even though the K10D is good the difference between the output of the two is quite evident IMHO. The gradations on the K20D are smoother and noise is more film like at higher ISO's.

As I have said in another post, 100 percent magnification with the K10D seems more like 115-120 percent i.e. 95 percent looks closer to maximum magnification, oddly enough the pixels are evident at 100 percent, which I have never seen with any other camera. I have always been perplexed by this. It is subtle, but the artifacts are evident, where not so on the K20D.

Ben
11-20-2008, 11:28 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Don't really care much about the ratings by them. I've used both K10D and K20D, and I know the sensor on K20D is superior than the one on K10D.
QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
+1, and I still use both cameras.
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
+2 on that.
QuoteOriginally posted by bt*ist Quote
+3 - and I don't even have a K20D. I'm perfectly happy with my K10D and no camera that rates higher makes my camera any worse so I'm content!

(That said, take THAT Nikon D300!!!)

Still, it's an interesting site and I like what they're trying to do.
thats good and all that you guys are happy with what you have (or... dont have ) but its precisely because of people that DO CARE that you have a K20D in your hands, and not an etsosketch.
11-20-2008, 12:00 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
As I have 3xK10D's and 3xK20D's, I agree with Ken wholeheartedly. Even though the K10D is good the difference between the output of the two is quite evident IMHO. The gradations on the K20D are smoother and noise is more film like at higher ISO's.

As I have said in another post, 100 percent magnification with the K10D seems more like 115-120 percent i.e. 95 percent looks closer to maximum magnification, oddly enough the pixels are evident at 100 percent, which I have never seen with any other camera. I have always been perplexed by this. It is subtle, but the artifacts are evident, where not so on the K20D.

Ben
K10D has an odd Anti-alias filter arrangement. Weak (or absent) in one direction. Stronger in the other. Most cameras have 2 equal
AA's 90 degrees opposed..
11-20-2008, 12:47 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
As I have 3xK10D's and 3xK20D's, I agree with Ken wholeheartedly. Even though the K10D is good the difference between the output of the two is quite evident IMHO. The gradations on the K20D are smoother and noise is more film like at higher ISO's.

As I have said in another post, 100 percent magnification with the K10D seems more like 115-120 percent i.e. 95 percent looks closer to maximum magnification, oddly enough the pixels are evident at 100 percent, which I have never seen with any other camera. I have always been perplexed by this. It is subtle, but the artifacts are evident, where not so on the K20D.

Ben
K10D has a very weak AA filter in one direction - produces sharp images but the downside is slightly rough rendering and moire at 100% if sharp lenses are used.
11-20-2008, 11:16 PM   #30
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Absolutely useless ratings and it's simply PR of DXO site.
They make measurements under naked RAW files without influence of convertor and lenses.
Who cares about NAKED sensor data and in which way the camera-makers solves problems?

Here is the method
Comparing the SNR of cameras with different resolutions

Under such methods the best sensor must has 1 pixel.

DxO makes normalization for 8МP (they said about it at the site).
In such case Nikon D90 with 12 MP shows SNR=60Db. After normalization of DxO we see SNR_ref_12М = 60DB + 10log_10(12Mp/8Mp) ~ 61.8dB.

OK. Let's make 1 pixel sensor with SNR=150 dB.
SNR_ref_1pixel = 150db + 10log_10(1/8000000) ~ 81dB.

81 is higher that 61.8. It means that 1 pixel sensor is much better than D90's sensor.

Nothing to discuss at all. Forget DXO ratings.
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