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11-18-2008, 03:01 AM   #1
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DXO Mark : an interresting performance comparison site for DSLR cameras

I hesitated to put this thread under DSLR discussion folder, but since this thread will soon move to trolling like "P* and Sa* are better brands than N* and C* and don't talk about So*" etc. Lets put is there.

DXO, famous for their lens correction and raw optimisation sofware have launched a preformance ranking site for SLR bodies similar to what is 3D mark for graphic cards.

It happens here : Welcome to dxomark.com (beta), a free resource dedicated to RAW-based camera image quality

I'm pretty sure that there will be endless debates about the relevance of their method to calculate a synthesis score. But the biggest quality I find to it is that it will provide a much better marketing driver than the already outdated pixel count or Iso range.

Now if you look at the overall ranking : DxOMark Sensor
You'll see that the Samsung GX20 is the second "best" APSC camera behind Nikon D90, strangely the Pentax K20D is behind Pentax K10D which is against my own experience.

I tried to compare the Samsung GX20 to the Pentax K20D, and the only real difference I see is a better dynamic range for average iso. (Real iso being for faithfull for the K20D)



My conclusion :
- If this scoring method becomes the reference for camera performance measurment, if will become a great progress for camera marketing. The parameters that DXO is measuring are very relevant to me. They are the ones that helps the cameraman to take a good photo.
- I would like to know on how many cameras they have been testing this for every model. I'm a bit surprised by the difference between Samsung GX20 and Pentax K20D (and between Nikon's D90 and D300)

Regards,
Guillaume

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11-18-2008, 03:09 AM   #2
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Has nobody told DxO that the GX-20 and K20D are identical underneath? Why is there a difference in resolution and pixel picth?
11-18-2008, 03:13 AM   #3
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I think they mixed up the gx20 with the k20d cause it says there the k20d is cheaper. the gx20 has a lower iso?
11-18-2008, 03:15 AM   #4
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I thought the K20D and GX20 used the same sensor?

11-18-2008, 06:49 AM   #5
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The differences

QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
I thought the K20D and GX20 used the same sensor?
But the ADC (Analog to Digital Convertor) is different, K20D's is 12-bit and Samsung's one is 22-bit and so do the internal processing, as told. I believe Samsung do have fine tuned the GX-20 a little bit better than the K20D.
11-18-2008, 07:22 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
But the ADC (Analog to Digital Convertor) is different, K20D's is 12-bit and Samsung's one is 22-bit and so do the internal processing, as told. I believe Samsung do have fine tuned the GX-20 a little bit better than the K20D.
Proof please... The only 22bit ADC was used in the K10 10MP variants.... Not the k200 either.
I BELIEVE your wrong on this.
to use the words of your fav...
The GX-20 is Samsung's fourth digital SLR produced in association with Pentax, and - slight styling and menu differences aside - is essentially the same camera as the Pentax K20D launched last night. Although pricing is obviously fairly fluid in this market the GX-20 is expected to sell for slightly less than the K20D. There's not a huge amount to say about the GX-20 that doesn't apply to the K20D, so we'll mainly stick to looking at the differences on this page.

As with the K20D this is a case of 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' compared to the GX-10 (which was a Pentax K10D doppleganger). The key changes are the new higher resolution sensor and, this being 2008, Live Preview.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012412samsunggx20handson.asp
Hmmm. Phil does list the 22bit ADC though....From a production and engineering standpoint it makes little sense and will need more proof.
Samsung mentions the DDR-2 memory as in the K20D but no ADC...
http://www.samsungcamera.com/product/pro_view.asp?prol_uid=4234&cat_uid=62

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-18-2008 at 08:05 AM.
11-18-2008, 08:51 AM   #7
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So, you should read this Samsung official press release and spec:-

Samsung GX20 發報會

which I reported months ago in my blog:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: GX-20 and Lenses are being Sold Very Cheap

As usual, hearsays and mis-interpretation won't help you to know about the truth (whats the DDR-2 ram anything to do with the ADC? As you say, they haven't mentioned that in *your* quoted link. So? what does this prove??).

QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Proof please... The only 22bit ADC was used in the K10 10MP variants.... Not the k200 either.
I BELIEVE your wrong on this.
to use the words of your fav...
The GX-20 is Samsung's fourth digital SLR produced in association with Pentax, and - slight styling and menu differences aside - is essentially the same camera as the Pentax K20D launched last night. Although pricing is obviously fairly fluid in this market the GX-20 is expected to sell for slightly less than the K20D. There's not a huge amount to say about the GX-20 that doesn't apply to the K20D, so we'll mainly stick to looking at the differences on this page.

As with the K20D this is a case of 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' compared to the GX-10 (which was a Pentax K10D doppleganger). The key changes are the new higher resolution sensor and, this being 2008, Live Preview.

Samsung GX-20 brief hands-on: Digital Photography Review
Hmmm. Phil does list the 22bit ADC though....From a production and engineering standpoint it makes little sense and will need more proof.
Samsung mentions the DDR-2 memory as in the K20D but no ADC...
Digital SLR Camera from Samsung TechWin
11-18-2008, 09:12 AM   #8
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Well, Samsung not being able to put a lens coorectly attached to a GX10 make me think they might be as useful as your posts.

11-18-2008, 10:33 AM   #9
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Original Poster
Please no Rice High bashing in this thread.

The technical data provided by DXO about the different cameras is a bit inconsistent regarding the sensor (apart from Pentax K20D / Samsung GX20, you can look at the Nikon D80 vs the Pentax K10D) I blieve this is due to the fact that DXO used "marketing" technical sheets and made no actual measurement of it.

Anyway, the difference between Pentax K20D and Samsung GX 20 may be explained only by a software different and not by a different Analogue / Digital converter (That would make a hudge hardware difference between Pentax and Samsung)

Regards,
Guillaume
11-18-2008, 12:25 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
So, you should read this Samsung official press release and spec:-

Samsung GX20 發報會

which I reported months ago in my blog:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: GX-20 and Lenses are being Sold Very Cheap

As usual, hearsays and mis-interpretation won't help you to know about the truth (whats the DDR-2 ram anything to do with the ADC? As you say, they haven't mentioned that in *your* quoted link. So? what does this prove??).
I'm not saying your wrong but would like more recent 3rd party corroboration on this.
PR literature can be wrong though it is "less likely" to be wrong than internet hearsay.
According to Roland the sensor has the ADC built on it is less likely that a second ADC was added.
As I said, logic tells me to doubt it. Just as Samsung insisted that Schneider designed/built the lenses.
As to your blog, all I can see is "22"......
Or as Babelfish says:
processors, 22 type/annularities GX-20 arrangement processors, DDR2 bodies and speeds 800MB/s and effective. 22 type/annular techniques, national disgrace stairway chromatic changes and general 12 techniques, scenery chromatic minuteness and national disgrace step,、 color layers.
To be honest I doubt Samsung though it would explain some of the differences. If it was the same ADC as the K10 then I would have suspected the DR to be way better than the k20.
Another take:
Terminal velocity phantom processor, 22 element analogy/numerical code transformations GX-20 provides the top phantom processor, uses the Tristar DDR2 memory, the access speed reaches as high as 800MB/s, and the effective reduced miscellaneous news, reach to fastest and the high quality phantom control and processing. Coordinates 22 elements the analogy/numerical code transformation technologies, can 夠 demonstrate that 42,000 stages the color changes, the effect by far general 12 element technology, the reproduction is gloomy and when high luminance scenery especially is splendid carefully, can 夠 further promote the phantom to pick up the effect, presents exquisitely, the lifelike color level.
22bit ADC or 22bit processing pipeline??

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-18-2008 at 12:35 PM.
11-18-2008, 12:31 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Please no Rice High bashing in this thread.

The technical data provided by DXO about the different cameras is a bit inconsistent regarding the sensor (apart from Pentax K20D / Samsung GX20, you can look at the Nikon D80 vs the Pentax K10D) I blieve this is due to the fact that DXO used "marketing" technical sheets and made no actual measurement of it.

Anyway, the difference between Pentax K20D and Samsung GX 20 may be explained only by a software different and not by a different Analogue / Digital converter (That would make a hudge hardware difference between Pentax and Samsung)

Regards,
Guillaume
thats what I said. Unfortunately both DP Review and Samsung themselves seem to imply the 22bit ADC was used... Just want more confirmation. Samsung "spins" things quite regular (actually more like outright lies), and to be honest it may just be a 22bit "processor" not 22 bit ADC.....
I don't speak/read Korean and translations can be tricky at best at times.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-18-2008 at 12:36 PM.
11-18-2008, 01:14 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
you can look at the Nikon D80 vs the Pentax K10D
Sony always does special editions of their sensors for Nikon... so Nikon might really have different CCD10Mp vs Pentax (I am not talking about D200 10Mp), plus further circuitry (ADC) is certainly different between Nikon and Pentax
11-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
So, you should read this Samsung official press release and spec:-

Samsung GX20 發報會

which I reported months ago in my blog:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: GX-20 and Lenses are being Sold Very Cheap

As usual, hearsays and mis-interpretation won't help you to know about the truth (whats the DDR-2 ram anything to do with the ADC? As you say, they haven't mentioned that in *your* quoted link. So? what does this prove??).
SO you ar the only one w/ "the truth"?
At least this time you were mis-informed. No fault of yours.. Of course your insistence to believe false data will again be your downfall.
Care to double check your sources? I keep finding only circumstantial evidence to contradict you, but to be honest, the ADC should logically be the 14bit one.
this from PMA:
Another attractive feature for advanced photographers is the GX-20’s superb RAW image format support. The exclusive one-touch RAW shooting button enables users to quickly capture 14-bit RAW images, which can then be quickly be viewed on the LCD screen.
Samsung GX-20 Digital SLR
14-bit RAW images
Samsung GX-20 Reviews and Resources Photography Bay | Digital Camera Reviews, News and Resources
OTHERS:
http://stuff.tv/news/Samsungs-Pentax-clone-the-GX20/9143/
Look closer and you'll find redesigned menus and potentially slightly different looking snaps, as Samsung says it's programmed its own JPEG processing. Shoot in unadulterated RAW, though, and you'll essentially be holding the same camera.


Oh and the K20D uses a 14bit ADC, not 12.

Care to correct yourself (I thought not).

YOUR words:
But the ADC (Analog to Digital Convertor) is different, K20D's is 12-bit and Samsung's one is 22-bit and so do the internal processing, as told. I believe Samsung do have fine tuned the GX-20 a little bit better than the K20D.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-19-2008 at 08:01 AM.
11-19-2008, 07:26 AM   #14
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Personally I love this type of technical data. It doesn't overwhelm you-just easy to make a comparison.

Wow- the K10D easily holds its own amongst much more expensive competitors!

E.G. It beats the Oly E3, Nikon D80 and D200 in all depts.

Is equal (wow again) to the Nikon D300 and the Canon 40D

It absolutely trounces the Canon 450D, Nikon D40X.

Nor does the Sony 900 FF outclass it $3000 vs $900

And uhhhhhh also the bigger brother K20D??

What a beaut and what a bargain!!

D

Last edited by dylansalt; 11-19-2008 at 07:33 AM.
11-19-2008, 07:44 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
Wow- the K10D easily holds its own amongst much more expensive competitors!
sensor part of К10D ... not AF/metering/pTTL
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