[pres589]

I'd rather see Pentax join the L-mount Alliance vs. join JIP and the OM Digital situation. The problem I see with Pentax sharing Star or Ltd. lens designs is that, at some point, the special stuff doesn't get folks to buy k-mount bodies anymore and that's Pentax is basically the same as Sigma. Which isn't a bad place to be, but it's not what I think most of us would hope for.

[BarneyL]

So, Ricoh is looking for their own Andreas Kaufmann.

[biz-engineer]

plus Pentax's current lenses could fit in well within the E mount ecosystem

That would be the end of Pentax, Sony grabbing a portion of Pentax customers, while the other Pentax customer would leave. Personally, if Pentax would be sold to Sony or adopt e-mount, I'd leave without hesitation. Technically, Sony has some merits, but as camera no chance , not my style, I like well built camera bodies and not only high performance specifications. I've always likely the Pentax DNA, but for me it's just that the Pentax "concept" didn't get enough investment to truly become the low cost Leica alternative.

---------- Post added 10-03-21 at 18:12 ----------

I believe how bright their future is will depend on how many K3III they sell and I think that may depend on what the price is. If its north of 2k I believe that will be a BIG problem.

Market share in ILC cameras doesn't change quickly. Gaining market share is huge task. So, the maximum amount of K3III sales is pretty much set in stone, hence the price. So where is the mistake? The mistake is to assume that ILC camera systems are long term investments. Now for myself I consider that my next camera kit (camera + lenses) will be disposable, this consideration will limit my lens purchases to two lenses. I'll never buy again a full camera+lenses product lineup from the same brand, too costly in case the product line is discontinued.

[Dartmoor Dave]

The most viable way forward is for Pentax to be the only -- or at least the best -- manufacturer still making DSLR cameras with optical viewfinders. It will only ever be a boutique product for a niche market, and it might not be possible without attracting outside investment, but in the current ecosystem what other option is there? The only real question is whether the Pentax name holds enough cachet for it to become the optical viewfinder equivalent of the Leica rangefinder. As far as I'm concerned, it does.

[BarneyL]

Leica isn't solely about rangefinders though. They also make medium format SLRs, compacts and mirrorless ILC (both crop and FF).

[Dartmoor Dave]

Leica isn't solely about rangefinders though. They also make medium format SLRs, compacts and mirrorless ILC (both crop and FF).

That's true, which is why a continuing medium format presence from Pentax would be a huge plus. As for compacts and mirrorless, those aren't really Leicas and surely Pentax could arrange some sort of similar deal to license the brand name to other manufacturers. Licensing the brand name could be what brings in the outside investment needed. After all, Leica structures its entire business around protecting the rangefinder line, and it licenses the brand name wherever will help to achieve that end. Without being the only digital rangefinder manufacturer, Leica is dead.

[disasterfilm]

That may be true, but then if product generates loses why should company keep it if there is no perspective in making it profitable.

A lot of people think that way, and tons of businesses are predicated on that too. It makes tons of sense.

However - I'm 100% sure Pentax lost money on what I paid for a K-500 + the two kit lenses back when I bought them.

I now own a K-1ii, K-1, KP, K-70, K-3, K-5iis, K-5... and that K-500.
Not to mention the lenses. I don't want to list those; it may be easier to list what I *don't* own and shoot with now.

I'd say that loss to get me into the K-500 was a pretty good decision for them!

[AgentL]

I'd be happy to see Pentax make an L-mount body, heck, why not enter BOTH mount alliances and put out a MFT GR-style camera or a revitalization of the Q series in MFT?

[bdery]

That would be the end of Pentax, Sony grabbing a portion of Pentax customers, while the other Pentax customer would leave. Personally, if Pentax would be sold to Sony or adopt e-mount, I'd leave without hesitation. Technically, Sony has some merits, but as camera no chance , not my style, I like well built camera bodies and not only high performance specifications. I've always likely the Pentax DNA, but for me it's just that the Pentax "concept" didn't get enough investment to truly become the low cost Leica alternative.

I disagree.

Pentax cannot today enter the mirrorless market on its own, and that's where most of the money is.

Pentax cannot antagonize its small base of DSLR lovers.

Either of those would be the downfall of the brand.

But Pentax can hardly register growth by ignoring mirrorless. Without at least SOME growth, the owners will eventually decide that nostalgia isn't sufficient to justify expenses.

So Pentax can either hope that the DSLR market will grow back and that they will be alone in it (unlikely) or join a current system

My comment suggests that Pentax preserves its core DSLR business AND cater to mirrorless.

I would have them continue to develop DSLRs at a slow pace, and release more of their compact, high-quality lenses, AND introduce an official adapter for another system.

Maybe they wouldn't sell many DAF* 50 lenses that way (while it remains to be seen), but they would certainly expand their market base for Limited and other unique lenses.

Some people are excited by the size, build quality and uniqueness of the new Sigma 24-35-45-65 all-metal lenses. Those are pretty much an attempt at a Limited lineup, but with slower aperture and a larger size. A FA Limited AND an adapter wouldn't make the system larger than a comparable option on mirrorless.

Without antagonizing current DSLR users (no impact for them), it would being new revenues from a new market, for lenses. And that imaginary adapter could bring a profit margin not too far from that of an entry-level body, possibly better.

---

Let's say we agreed on that reasoning, Nikon is impossible to adapt (they made sure their mount couldn't accept other lenses, more or less). Canon is also unlikely. Fuji is only APS-C and hard to enter. Sony has arguably the largest user base, is a somewhat open system, and that makes it a logical choice.

I'm NOT saying Pentax should adopt E-mount, I'm saying they could provide an adapter for K-mount lenses on E-mount. Keep the K-mount alive but access a new user base at the same time.

[Kunzite]

I'm NOT saying Pentax should adopt E-mount, I'm saying they could provide an adapter for K-mount lenses on E-mount. Keep the K-mount alive but access a new user base at the same time.

No, that's how you kill the K-mount - and Pentax. It won't happen.
They wouldn't access a new user base at all, they would serve the Sony E-mount user base. It would be incredibly stupid for a company to facilitate migration from their system to a foreign one.

[pid]

I disagree.

Pentax cannot today enter the mirrorless market on its own, and that's where most of the money is.

Pentax cannot antagonize its small base of DSLR lovers.

Either of those would be the downfall of the brand.

But Pentax can hardly register growth by ignoring mirrorless. Without at least SOME growth, the owners will eventually decide that nostalgia isn't sufficient to justify expenses.

So Pentax can either hope that the DSLR market will grow back and that they will be alone in it (unlikely) or join a current system

My comment suggests that Pentax preserves its core DSLR business AND cater to mirrorless.

I would have them continue to develop DSLRs at a slow pace, and release more of their compact, high-quality lenses, AND introduce an official adapter for another system.

Maybe they wouldn't sell many DAF* 50 lenses that way (while it remains to be seen), but they would certainly expand their market base for Limited and other unique lenses.

Some people are excited by the size, build quality and uniqueness of the new Sigma 24-35-45-65 all-metal lenses. Those are pretty much an attempt at a Limited lineup, but with slower aperture and a larger size. A FA Limited AND an adapter wouldn't make the system larger than a comparable option on mirrorless.

Without antagonizing current DSLR users (no impact for them), it would being new revenues from a new market, for lenses. And that imaginary adapter could bring a profit margin not too far from that of an entry-level body, possibly better.

---

Let's say we agreed on that reasoning, Nikon is impossible to adapt (they made sure their mount couldn't accept other lenses, more or less). Canon is also unlikely. Fuji is only APS-C and hard to enter. Sony has arguably the largest user base, is a somewhat open system, and that makes it a logical choice.

I'm NOT saying Pentax should adopt E-mount, I'm saying they could provide an adapter for K-mount lenses on E-mount. Keep the K-mount alive but access a new user base at the same time.

the idea is already alive!
pentax-k-mount-to-sony-e-mount-autofocus-adapter

[mecrox]

There isn't much more revenue to be obtained from simply making more cameras, I'd guess. That applies to all the current players. The market is unlikely to grow at all and will probably consolidate around just a few higher-end items from a smaller number of brands, although video (which Pentax isn't in) will likely expand. I'd guess Ricoh are looking for ways to leverage their patents and expertise in ventures in other fields of whatever kind, or license things that can be used under other brand names, etc. The imaging field is wide, far beyond just classic photography though whatever agreement Ricoh have with Hoya might limit what can be done. That might provide some extra revenue and expand the field of operations. In the meantime, Pentax can continue to make their DSLR cameras. It's hard to see where else they have to go with that. There are very few players left now and fewer options than there were. Things are pretty well set. I think Pentax have missed a trick with not doing more on medium format, though. Anyway, I don't think the head of Ricoh was talking about doing deals with other camera companies particularly but about a wider pan-industrial view of things that might need imaging expertise.

[bdery]

the idea is already alive!
pentax-k-mount-to-sony-e-mount-autofocus-adapter

Yes, and Pentax won't make a penny from it.

They wouldn't access a new user base at all, they would serve the Sony E-mount user base.

The idea would be to sell lenses and adapters to current E-mount users. While keeping the current K-mount users served.

It would be incredibly stupid for a company to facilitate migration from their system to a foreign one.

Pentax can't compete on the bodies. They can't release the K-3 iii and, between the time they announced it and the time they eventually release, Nikon will have released 3-4 bodies, same for Canon and Sony, 2-3 for Fuji.

Pentax can compete on the lenses. They have good enough lenses to go toe to toe with the others.

Users are already migrating. That's the truth. Pentax won't keep their users, let alone grow, by keeping doing what they're doing right now.

By giving access to their lenses (which is their biggest asset) to users who currently purchase Sony, Tamron, Sigma lenses, they CAN grow. Maybe at some point they'll become a lens company, and that would be sad, but the simple truth is that the current situation is not sustainable. And the other players in the field are not waiting patiently until Pentax does something, they are doing stuff on their own.

Adapting K-mount lenses to another system, without abandoning the K-mount, is one path to potential growth. Simply because of the significantly larger user base. Pentax could double their lenses sales without taking much of a dent in the other E-mount suppliers, the difference is that large.

Keep making DSLRs at a slow pace. Sell lens adapters. Sell lenses. Those who want DSLRs are served and happy. Those who like K-mount lenses are served and happy. And those who don't know anything about Pentax might become customers for lenses.

Otherwise, in a few years, Pentax will disappear into irrelevance. That's the message from Ricoh's management.

[jpzk]

Thank for the info but for me it seem to be a similar situation as Olympus. I understand they will accept an investor for the Ricoh imaging business.
Few extract
he signaled that the way Ricoh Imaging operates under Ricoh as of now cannot continue forever

Later, when asked about accepting outside investment VS selling camera business, he said that they're willing to work with partners if necessary and are willing to invest

That is a scary statement.

[kwb]

Maybe I am wrong, but I understand from this that Smart Vision is part of Digital Services and that the 360 degrees camera's Theta belong to that part of the business.

I think you're absolutely right! I would have used a different word than 集約 (concentrate, integrate, something like that) but that's probably because I'm seeing "Ricoh Imaging" as an existing company from user's perspective, not a re-imagined company that will be formed as a result of organizational changes and reallocation of resources from CEO's perspective.

Interesting - but I don't know what to make of it. Things can't continue as they are indefinitely, they want to keep Pentax alive - but what's the impact on the product lines and development?

Then - if it goes out on pentaxrumors, trolls will be happy; it's easy to ignore the positive wording and spin everything into a negative.

I don't know either. Who knows, there may or may not be more than 1 FF and 1 APSC K-mount cameras in production at the same time, consumer 360 cameras may or may not be merged with Vecnos, Pentax sports optics may or may not stay. But it's not like there was a promised future for any of these before they did this presentation, was there?


True, we don't know what to expect as far as product lines and development go. We cannot really expect that from the president/CEO of the mother company in investor meetings. But there were two genuinely new things to me. One was that the president/CEO of Ricoh expressed a preference to retain its influence over PENTAX and GR for now and somewhat into future. The other was that he publicly indicated that Ricoh Imaging doesn't really fit into the mother ship's business aspirations, even though he didn't state it that way. Given that the latter was kind of known since last November, I'll rate my mood "+10 positive-ish, maybe" using a scale of -100 (sky is falling) to +100 (I see trees of green, red roses too) .


As for cries of gloom and doom, so be it. There will be genuine ones, that's a natural reaction when future is uncertain, and trolls will troll anyway. I still prefer an honest "we'd rather form a joint company than sell the business, but stay tuned, something will happen down the line" to "rest assured that everything is good" while negotiating behind the closed door until we hear "actually we're selling it".