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03-10-2021, 04:13 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I'm curious what they really mean by "finding a partner". At this point, SLR construction is a vanishing art, so it's not like there are lots of folks who could be used as body subcontractors. I think I even read that Cosina had let all those folks go and hadn't really maintained a supply chain for shutters/mirrors and such.

But that makes more sense than selling off the whole lot to a company like the Olympus situation, if Ricoh plans on remaining involved in it somehow.

Lenses make even more sense, though I could see a partnership with one of the newer Chinese brands rather than Tokina/Tamron being something worth considering. If the Tokina or Tamron relationships are perceived as not being as successful as they thought, someone new might be a good plan, especially if you were after more traditional lens designs.

I think the wildcard would be a company like Nikon. Nikon wants to maintain a DSLR presence while focusing on mirrorless? Let Pentax make the DSLRs like Cosina used to with film bodies (with Nikon mounts and software, obviously)... Pentax wants improved autofocus sensors or maybe some lens manufacturing capacity? Let Nikon handle it (maybe Nikon makes the 18-55s so Pentax can make limiteds, or maybe Pentax licenses a 70-300 without VR). They aren't really competitors like they used to be, so maybe it would work... And it wouldn't have to be Nikon, but Canon doesn't seem like the kind of company that would do that...

-Eric
Why would Nikon invest in Pentax as long as they have their own user base with lots of DSLR lenses available? The cost to replace D850 and D500 with new models would be a lot less than investing in a new company to produce DSLRs...

03-10-2021, 04:21 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Why would Nikon invest in Pentax as long as they have their own user base with lots of DSLR lenses available? The cost to replace D850 and D500 with new models would be a lot less than investing in a new company to produce DSLRs...
It depends on what that relationship is meant to be. Something like I suggested with Nikon would be less “investment” and more “trading in local capabilities”, though there could be more exotic approaches used.

I think an arrangement with a Chinese lens maker would look more like a traditional arrangement, as Pentax likely has “things for them to buy”.

But I wonder if Ricoh is looking for an unusual solution. The Tokina/Tamron shared development thing does not seem to have worked as well lately as it seemed to in the past. Maybe an unprecedented market leaves them searching for something unique...

-Eric
03-10-2021, 04:25 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Sony "junk" and Pentax standards have something very important in common: the Sony "junk" sensors found in Pentax cameras.

I don't know about you, but Sony "junk" cameras are behind such images (see below), which in my opinion are beautiful "junk" images to look at.

That being said, a partnership sounds good to me with a right investor to help Ricoh growing the interest in Pentax system. Maybe someone who knows even a little digital marketing may help...

https://www.mariansterea.ro/index
When I used the word "junk" I was thinking of construction standards and such, not the individual components.
The question is not whether a camera will take good shots, but whether it will continue to do so regardless of how much abuse it suffers.
Sony cameras are built like gaming consoles or other consumer goods, while Pentax has much more strict standards.
I would guess that if Pentax applied the same construction standards to the K-1 series that they apply to the K-30...K-70 series, many members here would be upset
03-10-2021, 05:06 PM - 7 Likes   #64
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So, are we more or less doomed, or are we doomed, more or less?

03-10-2021, 05:30 PM   #65
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Maybe, maybe not...

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I think, if the people in the Imaging division have courage, and are creative, the investments they mention could take many shapes.

Could they create a way to piggy-back on a current mirrorless system, via an adapter, allowing them to sell K-mount lenses for other systems? Maybe that would lead to a profitable move, both by selling the adapter and by selling lenses to a new market.

That would still let them sell camera bodies for those who want them, but would potentially increase lenses sales.

For the record, Sony's user base appears to be 20x that of Pentax.
I just started a small Panasonic Micro Four Thirds system. Though I have several K-Mount to MFT adaptors, I don't think they'll get much use. One of the big draws of mirrorless, especially MFT, is the range of truly compact lenses. Pentax FF lenses feel big on my GX8, with the adaptor adding an inch of length and quite a bit of solid metal weight. I could adopt my DA*300 to the GX8, but it would always give a bigger, better image on my Pentaxes. Meanwhile, I have a 300-gram Panasonic zoom that's three inches long at 350mm- equivalent focal length. So far, the only thing my Pentax lens can do better on mirrorless is architecture, using a shift adaptor.
03-10-2021, 05:46 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Just a convenient and completely unsupported claim.
The K-3iii's announcement appears to be imminent,
Last I checked, the K-3iii was first shown in September 2019.
03-10-2021, 05:47 PM   #67
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A collaboration with a Chinese handphone maker like what Leica does with Huawei would be a good way out, but given the tensions now and past animosity, its not likely to happen.
I am sure makers like Xiaomi, Oppo, would also benefit if they can have a claim that they have imaging lens and technology from a 'renowned Japanese maker'

I'm not sure how strong Pentax is in industrial optics as that is a big market too with the semi-conductor shortage/boom.


I can only wait to see what happens and buy accordingly.

03-10-2021, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
So, are we more or less doomed, or are we doomed, more or less?
I think we're still evaluating the (lack of) evidence to figure out which way this is headed.
03-10-2021, 05:47 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
So, are we more or less doomed, or are we doomed, more or less?
Doomfully doomed, obviously .

I wouldn't read too much into this yet. If the K-3iii sells well -which it should- it might help a good deal already.
03-10-2021, 08:45 PM - 4 Likes   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
Ricoh Imaging doesn't really fit into the mother ship's business aspirations
Ricoh Company is a company on a new mission, to take advantage of the suddenly accelerating shift away from centralized offices. The traditional camera business has no place in such a company, but in today's market conditions you can't realize a positive return on your investment in the camera business by selling it to someone else. If there were buyers willing to pay full value for a camera manufacturing business, Nikon might be the only current manufacturer to hang onto their camera business and that would only be because cameras (and don't forget the lenses that go with those cameras) are the main part of Nikon's business and no other mainstream camera manufacturer has the same dependency on the camera business.

When the Ricoh CEO is talking about "partners," he is taking about other manufacturers facing the same dilemma, what to do with their traditional camera and lens businesses when there are no suitable buyers. When he talks about still being willing to invest in the traditional camera business, he is talking about acquiring other brands (either cameras or lenses or both) to merge with Pentax and GR, if advantageous opportunities present themselves. He is sending a message that he is willing to listen to proposals, but is also prepared to hang onto his traditional camera business if need be. To single out Pentax and GR brands in this presentation, when they contribute such a minuscule amount to the parent company, is a strong sign that something is going to be done soon with Ricoh Imaging, even if it is to park it in a corner somewhere within Ricoh Company where it can continue its operations on its own terms.
03-10-2021, 08:59 PM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I don't know that the Opera 50 really sold all that well which is unfortunate.
Operas, like theaters and cinemas have really deeply suffered from Covid-19

---------- Post added 10-03-21 at 21:03 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by davidsladek Quote
I think half of Ricoh/Pentax problems is not linked to product at all but to their communication. Their comms are almost medieval to today's world, their presentations are too. I don't really know wny but that is a big part of the problem why people don't take them seriously. Because the product certainly is serious and great.
I completely agree with this.
03-10-2021, 09:17 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by davidsladek Quote
I think half of Ricoh/Pentax problems is not linked to product at all but to their communication. Their comms are almost medieval to today's world, their presentations are too. I don't really know wny but that is a big part of the problem why people don't take them seriously. Because the product certainly is serious and great.
Since Ricoh’s relationships are mostly with businesses, they may be basically uncomfortable in communicating with customers, with people like us. I’m not sure which customer-facing companies have excess cash right now, but one of them may be the best partner for Ricoh and/or provide the best new home for Pentax.

Last edited by reh321; 03-10-2021 at 09:24 PM.
03-10-2021, 11:11 PM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
When I used the word "junk" I was thinking of construction standards and such, not the individual components.
The question is not whether a camera will take good shots, but whether it will continue to do so regardless of how much abuse it suffers.
Sony cameras are built like gaming consoles or other consumer goods, while Pentax has much more strict standards.
I would guess that if Pentax applied the same construction standards to the K-1 series that they apply to the K-30...K-70 series, many members here would be upset
Lens rental said about A7R III that and I quote "So What Did We Learn Today?
Sony spoke truly. Except for the bottom this camera has thorough and extensive weather sealing, as good as any camera I’ve seen." If they said this about an older model like A7R III, then their findings seems to contradict you and they do have arguments and images to back up their findings.
03-11-2021, 12:06 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
So Pentax will lose their user's trust, won't sell lenses (because they're too expensive for third-party products) and won't even sell adapters.Great strategy!
I think that strategy was proposed by people already owning a Sony E mount camera in the background of being a Pentaxian. Pentax going Sony would make sense for some customers officially Pentaxians but officiously using Sony cameras for a few years already (hope my English is correct). There are a lot of Pentaxians who have been using their Pentax lenses (already owned from the past) on Sony cameras, and stopped buying Pentax cameras a while ago. Damage is already done.

---------- Post added 11-03-21 at 08:12 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Sony "junk" and Pentax standards have something very important in common: the Sony "junk" sensors found in Pentax cameras.
Sony sensors are good. Sony cameras are "junk", the cheapest assembly of all camera brands, but the Sony build is consistent with two years life cycle of their camera model, they expect customers to upgrade every two years, so there is no need to make rugged Sony cameras, cheapo craft is enough (disposable camera concept, at $3000 and more).

---------- Post added 11-03-21 at 08:16 ----------

How about to sell Pentax to Elon Musk. Cost savings could be achieved by sharing Tesla battery elements with Pentax cameras. Perhaps add some rocket science into Pentax cameras along the way?

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-11-2021 at 12:13 AM.
03-11-2021, 12:50 AM - 1 Like   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think that strategy was proposed by people already owning a Sony E mount camera in the background of being a Pentaxian. Pentax going Sony would make sense for some customers officially Pentaxians but officiously using Sony cameras for a few years already (hope my English is correct). There are a lot of Pentaxians who have been using their Pentax lenses (already owned from the past) on Sony cameras, and stopped buying Pentax cameras a while ago. Damage is already done.
Of course it's proposed by people owning Sony - why else would they want such an adapter?
But, with the very few exceptions of those who would expand both their Pentax DSLR and Sony E kits, this is as I said about using existing K-mount lenses on Sony E rather than buying brand new K-mount lenses to use on Sony E cameras - Pentax wouldn't get any money out of it.
Yet the idea was presented as how Pentax might survive - and it's a sure death if they don't do it Well, let's wait for the dramatic boost in sales after the Monster Adapter becomes available

Perhaps the worst damage would be us losing confidence in K-mount's future.
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