[Rondec]

Yeah, but if you add another 400$ for a compact camera or for a bridge or a second hand mirrorless/DSLR, you end up spending 700$+ and you would need to carry the camera with you on each vacation. Additionally, you would need to edit the images from cameras while on mobile phones you just apply some filters and the images are good to go on social media. Not to mention video which looks quite good on smarphones compared to cheap DSLRs or mirrorless cameras. That's why lots and lots of people tend to pay 700-1000$ for a smartphone and use it as a portable computer, as a portable gaming device, as a portable music player and as a photography/videography gear. These days it's more practical in my opinion a smartphone at 1000$ than a smartphone at 300$ and a compact/bridge/DSLR/mirrorless camera at 400-600$ with the kit lens.

The iphone 8 camera is good enough for what it is -- taking snap shots. Of course, we mainly take photos using SLRs and gear that costs way more than 1000 dollars. We aren't into video that much, but it will do HD video which is good enough for our purposes.

Anyway, I am obviously not in the demographic that buys more expensive phones and is satisfied with a phone that is a couple of generations old. I live in a poorer part of the country and most of the people I see have older phones as well.

[Dan Rentea]

The iphone 8 camera is good enough for what it is -- taking snap shots. Of course, we mainly take photos using SLRs and gear that costs way more than 1000 dollars. We aren't into video that much, but it will do HD video which is good enough for our purposes.

Anyway, I am obviously not in the demographic that buys more expensive phones and is satisfied with a phone that is a couple of generations old. I live in a poorer part of the country and most of the people I see have older phones as well.

Don't get me wrong. I understand very well what you were saying because I use a cheap Samsung smartphone that doesn't have a good camera for photography. My wife on the other hand takes quite nice images with her phone and when the latest phone broke after she dropped it, I wanted to buy her a small and light camera with a light lens. I found something at 750$ second hand, with 6 month of warranty. She refused because a smartphone does a better job for her than a camera with a lens. The funny thing is that I was pleasently surpised when I saw the quality of the latest Samsung phone in both photos and video.

What I wanted to say it's that it seems that more and more people are willing to pay 1000$ on a phone rather than spending 1000$ on 2 items (a phone + a camera with a lens) because a cheap entry level camera with a kit lens won't produce better images for the ones not really interested in photography as photographers are. Me or you have pro cameras and we expect different results from our gear and we know that a 1000$ or a 2000$ phone won't get near a pro camera in terms of image quality and that's why a smartphone isn't that appealing for us when comes to photography or video. It's not the case with people who are interested in social media, in sharing images with vibrant colors on Instagram, etc.

Speaking of phones, they do seem to pay more and more attention to photography as we can see in this link. Xiaomi?s Mi Mix smartphone will be the first in the world to use a liquid lens: Digital Photography Review

[reh321]

Don't get me wrong. I understand very well what you were saying because I use a cheap Samsung smartphone that doesn't h etc.
ave a good camera for photography. My wife on the other hand takes quite nice images with her phone and when the latest phone broke after she dropped it, I wanted to buy her a small and light camera with a light lens. I found something at 750$ second hand, with 6 month of warranty. She refused because a smartphone does a better job for her than a camera with a lens. The funny thing is that I was pleasently surpised when I saw the quality of the latest Samsung phone in both photos and video.

When our cat tries to get in to the piano bench {where we keep her toy for our quick access}, I have a choice. Unless I have my camera with mounted flash - or my KP - right at hand, she will have wandered to another interest by the time I fetch it. On the other hand, my ‘iPhone 8’ tends to be right in my pocket. Yes, it is not adjustable - but neither was my Kodak ‘Instamatic 100’ - but it is right in my pocket.

[texandrews]

Today, if you have a decent phone with a decent camera in it, there's no need for anything else for snapshots.

I have some of the best camera gear in the world. I never use it for snapshots. Call me a snob, but why would I have that stuff for snapshots?

[mtkeller]

Today, if you have a decent phone with a decent camera in it, there's no need for anything else for snapshots.

I have some of the best camera gear in the world. I never use it for snapshots. Call me a snob, but why would I have that stuff for snapshots?

Inclined to agree. I guess I might use my DSLR for a snapshot if it's already in my hand. However, even then, I might be more likely to let it hang from its strap and take out my phone, since my phone would immediately allow me to send the snapshot to someone. (If the K-3 iii comes with a much faster transfer to mobile device option, that might change my feelings. The in-camera raw development on the K-3 iii looks much more user-friendly, or I could get the raw file into Lightroom on my phone, do a quick adjustment, and then send it.)

[Rondec]

Don't get me wrong. I understand very well what you were saying because I use a cheap Samsung smartphone that doesn't have a good camera for photography. My wife on the other hand takes quite nice images with her phone and when the latest phone broke after she dropped it, I wanted to buy her a small and light camera with a light lens. I found something at 750$ second hand, with 6 month of warranty. She refused because a smartphone does a better job for her than a camera with a lens. The funny thing is that I was pleasently surpised when I saw the quality of the latest Samsung phone in both photos and video.

What I wanted to say it's that it seems that more and more people are willing to pay 1000$ on a phone rather than spending 1000$ on 2 items (a phone + a camera with a lens) because a cheap entry level camera with a kit lens won't produce better images for the ones not really interested in photography as photographers are. Me or you have pro cameras and we expect different results from our gear and we know that a 1000$ or a 2000$ phone won't get near a pro camera in terms of image quality and that's why a smartphone isn't that appealing for us when comes to photography or video. It's not the case with people who are interested in social media, in sharing images with vibrant colors on Instagram, etc.

Speaking of phones, they do seem to pay more and more attention to photography as we can see in this link. Xiaomi?s Mi Mix smartphone will be the first in the world to use a liquid lens: Digital Photography Review

Sure. I'm mainly saying that most folks are taking snap shots with their smart phones and seem to think that a 350 dollars smart phone camera is "good enough" rather than needing to go for the to end model. Obviously a lot depends on someone's financial standing and I am sure if I lived in an upscale area I would see a lot more high end phones, but I live in a poor area and most of what is see are Samsung and iphones that are lower end models and a couple of years old.

[ThorSanchez]

Today, if you have a decent phone with a decent camera in it, there's no need for anything else for snapshots.

I have some of the best camera gear in the world. I never use it for snapshots. Call me a snob, but why would I have that stuff for snapshots?

Because it takes awesome snapshots? If I had a Ferrari sometimes I'd drive it to the grocery store to get milk, because I'd have a freakin' Ferrari and I'd want to drive it. Why save it for track day? Use the heck out of whatever you have.

---------- Post added 03-26-21 at 10:44 AM ----------

Inclined to agree. I guess I might use my DSLR for a snapshot if it's already in my hand. However, even then, I might be more likely to let it hang from its strap and take out my phone, since my phone would immediately allow me to send the snapshot to someone. (If the K-3 iii comes with a much faster transfer to mobile device option, that might change my feelings. The in-camera raw development on the K-3 iii looks much more user-friendly, or I could get the raw file into Lightroom on my phone, do a quick adjustment, and then send it.)

Connectivity is one thing I'm really looking forward to on the K-3 III. Today with the K-3 II I sometimes wait days after a tournament to show photos to the rest of the soccer team because I have no connectivity at all. I'm still going to want to post-process everything, but the option to push a jpg to the phone will be great.

[texandrews]

Because it takes awesome snapshots? If I had a Ferrari sometimes I'd drive it to the grocery store to get milk, because I'd have a freakin' Ferrari and I'd want to drive it.

And I'd be the guy in the parking lot rolling my eyes...LOL.

Why save it for track day? Use the heck out of whatever you have.

I save it because it's for 2 things: 1. helping me to make a living, and 2. assisting with my art production. It was a very non-trivial expense to put that stuff together. Not gonna risk it on the trivial when I've got something that is plenty good enough for that.

[ThorSanchez]

And I'd be the guy in the parking lot rolling my eyes...LOL. I save it because it's for 2 things: 1. helping me to make a living, and 2. assisting with my art production. It was a very non-trivial expense to put that stuff together. Not gonna risk it on the trivial when I've got something that is plenty good enough for that.

I understand that for your case, but I'd guess 95%+ of people with an ILC don't ever make any money off of it. So snapshots are part of why we have the camera. I'll certainly use my phone camera when it's more convenient and accessible, but the Pentax when I can.

[jersey]

Kinda sort of returning to thread and moaning how Pentax dies: Ile aparat

It is in Polish, so you will need to run it through Google Translator if you want to read it, but summary is:

Japanese Sankeibiz portal got somehow data about number of cameras produced in Japan during 2020. For DSLR it looks like: 2.39 million overall, with 1.71 million by Canon, 650 thousands by Nikon and 30 thousands by rest of Japanese manufacturers, so most likely Pentax.

For MILC 3.26 million. 1.15 Sony, 1.05 Canona, 0.25 Nikon.

[Mistral75]

Kinda sort of returning to thread and moaning how Pentax dies: Ile aparat

It is in Polish, so you will need to run it through Google Translator if you want to read it, but summary is:

Japanese Sankeibiz portal got somehow data about number of cameras produced in Japan during 2020. For DSLR it looks like: 2.39 million overall, with 1.71 million by Canon, 650 thousands by Nikon and 30 thousands by rest of Japanese manufacturers, so most likely Pentax.

For MILC 3.26 million. 1.15 Sony, 1.05 Canona, 0.25 Nikon.

"Somehow" is the Japanese marketing research company Techno System Research, based in Tokyo:

Techno Systems Research Co., Ltd.| TSR

2019 data for DSLRs were:

1. Canon: 3.22 million
2. Nikon: 1.45 million
3. Pentax: 40,000
4. Sony: 10,000

2020 data are:

1. Canon: 1.71 million
2. Niko : 650,000
3. Pentax + Sony: 30,000

Link to the SankeiBiz article for those interested:

デジカメ市場、プロ向けミラーレスで激戦　ソニーは最上位製品を今月発売　 - SankeiBiz（サンケイビズ）：自分を磨く経済情報サイト

[Zygonyx]

Thanks Mistral.
Very bad news indeed, but not being able to provide two consecutive years with straightforward comparable data seems to be the priviledge of marketing study companies.
Btw, i wonder which DSLR models Sony has been selling in 2019-20, the last models i knew were DSLT : e.g. A99II discontinued april 2019.

[Mistral75]

(...) i wonder which DSLR models Sony has been selling in 2019-20, the last models i knew were DSLT.

DSLTs for Sony of course: Alpha 68, Alpha 77 II and Alpha 99 II. Techno System Research file them under DSLR.

[RobA_Oz]

Thanks Mistral.
Very bad news indeed, but not being able to provide two consecutive years with straightforward comparable data seems to be the priviledge of marketing study companies.
Btw, i wonder which DSLR models Sony has been selling in 2019-20, the last models i knew were DSLT : e.g. A99II discontinued april 2019.

I would imagine that Sony has just been running out existing stocks of those models. The drop in Pentax sales has probably been largely the result of having no new models for a while, so they may have been doing likewise with some of them (the recently-discontinued KP comes to mind). There will most likely be a boost in sales from the K-3iii, but they'll need to create some follow-through with other models fairly soon after that.

[thibs]

Well the number of Milc sold by Nikon is pretty bad too IMO.