[reh321]

*You* try handholding a long lens all day.

Most games do not last “all day”.

When our younger daughter played soccer and basketball, I did hand-hold my film camera with a 70-300mm lens.
Today, she is almost thirty.
If she ever has children who play sports, I would expect to hand-hold my KP with my 55-300 PLM.
Special people who purchase a K-3iii with a longer lens can do other wise
with their big investment - I hope they won’t be in the way.

---

Last edited by reh321; 03-31-2021 at 07:00 AM.

[Mike.P®]

I would expect to hand-hold my KP with my 55-300 PLM.

You have a KP?

[reh321]

You have a KP?

Yes, I talk about it here incessantly.

[FozzFoster]

Was this the thread where people were comparing the K-33 with the X-T4? I think it is, so I'm going to ask this here:

In preparation for placing a pre-order, today I brought a box of used cameras and lenses to my local camera store for trade-in value (they take a few days to quote prices).
Anyway, while I was at the shop, I asked to see an X-T4 (they didn't have a D500 on display).

Sure, it's an impressive camera. I like the tactile knobs and the focus was fast.
BUT - the EVF was awful.
Using the camera at eye-level was terrible, especially when panning/tracking.
The EVF seems to jitter along. There isn't a bad delay on the back LCD, but the EVF was nothing I would want to use.
My question is: was I doing something wrong? In the settings maybe? Is the EVF supposed to be more fluid?

---------- Post added 03-31-21 at 10:49 AM ----------

'cause if that's all you get with a top-of-the-line APS-C mirrorless then it's clear OVF is still miles better, imo

[Pentikonian]

Was this the thread where people were comparing the K-33 with the X-T4? I think it is, so I'm going to ask this here:

In preparation for placing a pre-order, today I brought a box of used cameras and lenses to my local camera store for trade-in value (they take a few days to quote prices).
Anyway, while I was at the shop, I asked to see an X-T4 (they didn't have a D500 on display).

Sure, it's an impressive camera. I like the tactile knobs and the focus was fast.
BUT - the EVF was awful.
Using the camera at eye-level was terrible, especially when panning/tracking.
The EVF seems to jitter along. There isn't a bad delay on the back LCD, but the EVF was nothing I would want to use.
My question is: was I doing something wrong? In the settings maybe? Is the EVF supposed to be more fluid?

---------- Post added 03-31-21 at 10:49 AM ----------

'cause if that's all you get with a top-of-the-line APS-C mirrorless then it's clear OVF is still miles better, imo

EVFs are not transparent to the user experience yet. At some point they'll likely be "close enough" for the vast majority.

I don't have the X-T4, but the EVF isn't any worse than the one on my X-H1.

My own personal opinion - my X-H1 EVF is adequate for most shooting - with the camera in boost/ high performance mode. EVF changes from "normal" to "high" quality and from 60fps to 100fps. Most likely the X-T4 you tried was still in "normal" mode.

The main area where it falls flat IMHO is transitioning from bright to dark, it can take a half second to a second to adjust display brightness.

I still prefer a proper large and bright OVF, especially for quickly moving objects like birds and airshow performances. I also still prefer Pentax ergos and haptics.

[FozzFoster]

I also should say the build quality on the X-T4 seemed questionable, especially the articulating screen (my K-70 screen feels much, much more durable).
And the joystick was very small and felt imprecise - I really hope the K-3 III joystick is better to use.

[c.a.m]

The EVF seems to jitter along. There isn't a bad delay on the back LCD, but the EVF was nothing I would want to use.My question is: was I doing something wrong? In the settings maybe? Is the EVF supposed to be more fluid?

I've had the use of my son's X-T3 for about a week. On that camera, there is a power setting called 'Boost' that increases the VF framerate from 60 to 100 fps. There's a noticeable difference between the two. At the boost setting, I found the EVF to be passable, although not great.

My son is generally happy with the X-T3. His main complaint seems to be its shallow integrated grip; he finds even the relatively compact XF 55-200 zoom to be a bit uncomfortable. Again, the handling is passable but not great, and works better with small prime lenses. His extra battery grip seems to improve the overall balance and handling.

- Craig

[FozzFoster]

"normal" to "high" quality and from 60fps to 100fps

'Boost' that increases the VF framerate from 60 to 100 fps

This must be it! Thank you. Next time I'm in I will look for that.

[c.a.m]

This must be it! Thank you. Next time I'm in I will look for that.

The boost mode also increases the AF speed from 'normal to 'fast'. Of course, that mode also consumes more battery power -- that's why they implemented the option.

If I recall correctly, setting the boost mode requires a bit of menu diving of several layers. Perhaps it could be assigned to a quick menu slot or function button.

- Craig

[FozzFoster]

The boost mode also increases the AF speed from 'normal to 'fast'. Of course, that mode also consumes more battery power -- that's why they implemented the option.

If I recall correctly, setting the boost mode requires a bit of menu diving of several layers.

I'm thinkin' those mirrorless brands need to partner with AMD or Nvidia and get some FreeSync/GSync up in those EVF - even at 60fps it would make me nauseous to use at eye level for any practical use! haha

[reh321]

I'm thinkin' those mirrorless brands need to partner with AMD or Nvidia and get some FreeSync/GSync up in those EVF - even at 60fps it would make me nauseous to use at eye level for any practical use! haha

When Nikon's 'road show' introducing the Z6 and Z7 came through town, I noticed neither flickering nor lag when I tried a Z7.
I did ask an employee to walk around the LED-lighted store I could evaluate lag.

[FozzFoster]

I noticed neither flickering nor lag

I hope, for the sake of the X-T4 users, that when in 'boost' mode the X-T4 EVF provide a similar experience to yours with the Z7, because lag was the first thing I noticed when even doing the slightest panning in their well-lit store.

but as mentioned:

EVFs are not transparent to the user experience yet. At some point they'll likely be "close enough" for the vast majority.

maybe it's just something I notice more than others.

[gatorguy]

When Nikon's 'road show' introducing the Z6 and Z7 came through town, I noticed neither flickering nor lag when I tried a Z7.
I did ask an employee to walk around the LED-lighted store I could evaluate lag.

It's there apparently even if you didn't notice.

"In an interview with DPReview (2019), Nikon execs share their thoughts about the company’s Z 6 and Z 7 cameras and about the state of the mirrorless nation.

As far as I know Nikon is the first company clearly and directly addressing the fact that EVFs (Electronic View Finder) still suck compared to an optical viewfinder.

From the interview (emphasis mine):

Question: How do you think the market for full frame mirrorless will evolve?

Answer: In terms of hardware, it is likely that mirrorless will catch up with DSLR. But one thing that is a challenge is the time lag of electronic viewfinders. Even though we have a great mirrorless [solution], we cannot beat the optical viewfinder.

For really high-level professional photographers at sports events and so on, I believe that the DSLR will survive."

[FozzFoster]

Granted I only had a short time with the X-T4, but it left a real bad taste in my mouth.
Even if the 100 fps boost was more fluid, I doubt it would be OVF satisfying (especially knowing it's killin' my battery quicker).
To know that the X-T4 is being compared feature-wise to the K-3.... I would strongly urge you to get the camera in your hands and to your eye before purchasing one.

and to think that not only is my APS-C system is going to have a FF field of view OVF ... but also 10% more brighter!

OVF is just an obvious choice if you're at all interested in having a pleasurable time being a photographer, imo

[Pentikonian]

I hope, for the sake of the X-T4 users, that when in 'boost' mode the X-T4 EVF provide a similar experience to yours with the Z7, because lag was the first thing I noticed when even doing the slightest panning in their well-lit store.

but as mentioned:

maybe it's just something I notice more than others.

I always run in boost, I haven't noticed lag. But, as you said, you may notice it more than others.

I'm sensitive to certain viewfinder issues. Some lower-spec OVFs give me serious eye strain and migraine-level headaches. Others are great. Some EVFs (like my X-H1) are better than the lower-spec OVFs - for me and my eyes. Other EVFs can give me eye strain and headaches.

We all perceive things in ways unique to ourselves.

Competition and choice are great things IMHO.

Regarding the K-3 mkIII... I was leaning toward keeping my Fuji gear for general photography and a small K-1 kit for landscape. After some of the glowing reports from field use about improved OVF and AF performance, I want to get one in my hands and see how well it works for me. So, I could be selling all my Fuji stuff (except my X100F) and keeping all of my existing Pentax gear. The Fuji stuff doesn't hold a candle to Pentax when it comes to ergos and haptics IMHO.