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04-12-2021, 07:54 AM - 2 Likes   #511
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
This!

A small number of commenters are basing their opinion of an unreleased camera that none of us have ever seen in person, much less operated, on what some reviewer was permitted to say or was able to test in a limited time. Worse than that, the images and highlights from using the camera were limited to incomplete firmware controlling yet to be finalized features and functions. All those reviewers had pre-production cameras!
You could say that it's not actually a small number of commenters but rather nearly every post in the rumours section, whether they be good or bad

04-12-2021, 07:57 AM - 4 Likes   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
You could say that it's not actually a small number of commenters but rather nearly every post in the rumours section, whether they be good or bad
I could say that.

In my case I'm hopeful, yet wise enough to recognize I might be disappointed in some area. I've not yet seen anything that discourages me from being a first adopter. If the incomplete reviews based on pre-production software are the worst that the camera can deliver I'm good with it.
04-12-2021, 08:05 AM - 1 Like   #513
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K-3 Mark III Image Quality and ISO

It might be worthwhile to review the statements that Ricoh Imaging has made concerning image quality across the sensitivity range.

Challengers: Improved image quality made possible by upgraded key devices
"Miyata: The new devices made it possible for us to improve image quality in the lower sensitivity ranges, and also to attain the top sensitivity of ISO 1,600,000. Our pursuit of higher top sensitivity also led to the development of better image-quality development technologies over the entire sensitivity range. This also meant that we could better assure more natural image rendition in the frequently used sensitivity ranges."


Product description: K-3 Mark III Features: Superb imaging power over the entire sensitivity range
"Thanks to its multi-dimensional image space filtering process, the PENTAX K-3 Mark III greatly reduces noise, while still retaining the subtle outlines of a subject. This advanced technology optimizes the camera’s resolving power, and faithfully reproduces the subject's texture and detail.

It also improves image description in the lower sensitivity range, while minimizing unfaithful reproduction of blacks in the higher sensitivity range where color reproduction becomes more difficult. Even at the top sensitivity of ISO 1,600,000, it delivers a natural, well-defined image with a sharp subject outline and vivid colors."


Product Story Number 10
"We completely redesigned all of the components that affect image quality, to further improve the camera’s imaging performance, not only in the high-sensitivity range, but in the low-sensitivity range as well."

Comparison images: K-3 Mark III and K-1 II at ISO 102400 and 204800. (As an aside, the K-3 Mark III images appear 'cleaner' to my sense.)


K-3 Mark III Operating Manual: Specifications > Drive Mode > Continuous Shooting

Continuous (H): Max 12 fps; RAW 32 frames
(M): 7 fps; RAW 37
(L): 2.5 fps; RAW 39

"• When the ISO sensitivity is set to ISO 100
• The continuous shooting speed is slower when shooting with a high ISO sensitivity." [similar to KP spec]


The last specification is interesting.


- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 04-12-2021 at 08:19 AM.
04-12-2021, 08:13 AM - 5 Likes   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I could say that.

In my case I'm hopeful, yet wise enough to recognize I might be disappointed in some area.

That statement right there gives me a little hope for this forum.

I rarely come here any longer as to me it seems that anyone that says the smallest thing against Pentax is instantly set upon by what I can only describe as a rabid pack of attack dogs ( 3 or 4 people in particular). I am a massive fan of the brand and have had every top end camera (some multiple times) from the K10D to my present K-1 and have multiple lenses from the 15-30mm to the 150-450mm but Pentax has it's weaknesses and personally I don't get all defensive when someone mentions them, after all it's only a camera at the end of the day.

My only concern is AF/tracking speed and I have held back putting in an order until I see it in action, I have been burned before by Pentax's autofocus promises.


Just my opinion of course.


Last edited by Mike.P®; 04-12-2021 at 08:44 AM.
04-12-2021, 10:12 AM   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
One thing to note is that none of the currently published videos showcase sports or other super active use cases. We're still safely in traditional slow moving Pentax territory.
There have been some examples of moving subjects like wildlife and surfing. But I'm very interested in things like team sports where the subject of interest is both moving erratically and sometimes obscured by other players or objects. I'm sure even a recent Sony or the D500 doesn't handle that type of thing flawlessly, but I'm eagerly awaiting how the K-3 III does there and what settings optimize its performance in that context.
04-12-2021, 10:21 AM - 1 Like   #516
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
There have been some examples of moving subjects like wildlife and surfing. But I'm very interested in things like team sports where the subject of interest is both moving erratically and sometimes obscured by other players or objects. I'm sure even a recent Sony or the D500 doesn't handle that type of thing flawlessly, but I'm eagerly awaiting how the K-3 III does there and what settings optimize its performance in that context.
What would you consider an optimal reaction to having player A {who you were focusing on} run behind player B just as you press the shutter?
04-12-2021, 10:29 AM   #517
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What would you consider an optimal reaction to having player A {who you were focusing on} run behind player B just as you press the shutter?
The current reaction of the K-70 is to freak out and throw my Tamron 70-200's screw drive into rapid convulsions as it becomes completely unable to recognize anything as a viable subject.

I'm hoping that the expanded selectable AF points and the joystick mean that if it does jump to player B (not unreasonable), I could move the focus points to player A quickly (once visible) and hit the focus button to lock on again.

Tracking and especially the depth data and predictions could make this all very interesting. If player B obstructs for only a split second, perhaps the camera will stay close enough to player A's distance to pick them up as the desired subject.

It looks like lacrosse is going to be done here before the K-3 iii arrives. Hopefully will get to shoot some baseball with it yet this spring, but that's a much easier proposition when it comes to focusing. (Still plenty for the K-3 iii to help out with there, but where I get to shoot from involves less crossing of players.)

04-12-2021, 10:59 AM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
The current reaction of the K-70 is to freak out and throw my Tamron 70-200's screw drive into rapid convulsions as it becomes completely unable to recognize anything as a viable subject.

I'm hoping that the expanded selectable AF points and the joystick mean that if it does jump to player B (not unreasonable), I could move the focus points to player A quickly (once visible) and hit the focus button to lock on again.

Tracking and especially the depth data and predictions could make this all very interesting. If player B obstructs for only a split second, perhaps the camera will stay close enough to player A's distance to pick them up as the desired subject.

It looks like lacrosse is going to be done here before the K-3 iii arrives. Hopefully will get to shoot some baseball with it yet this spring, but that's a much easier proposition when it comes to focusing. (Still plenty for the K-3 iii to help out with there, but where I get to shoot from involves less crossing of players.)
That's what AF hold is for (available on at least the K-3, K-3 II, KP, K-1, K-1 II and K-3 III when it's released). It will hold the AF focal point and ignore an obstruction maintaining the in focus point of the original subject distance. Generally (from my testing and use cases) AF hold works beautifully (on a K-3) when on the X and Y axis (you can easily shoot a bird through branches with no issue). Z-axis is tricky since AF hold will "hold" the point of focus lock momentarily so if the subject is coming directly at you, AF hold won't work so well since it'll still be locked onto the prior point of focus. Hopefully with the K-3 III, the new prediction algorithm takes care of this.
04-12-2021, 11:06 AM   #519
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
The current reaction of the K-70 is to freak out and throw my Tamron 70-200's screw drive into rapid convulsions as it becomes completely unable to recognize anything as a viable subject.

I'm hoping that the expanded selectable AF points and the joystick mean that if it does jump to player B (not unreasonable), I could move the focus points to player A quickly (once visible) and hit the focus button to lock on again.

Tracking and especially the depth data and predictions could make this all very interesting. If player B obstructs for only a split second, perhaps the camera will stay close enough to player A's distance to pick them up as the desired subject.

It looks like lacrosse is going to be done here before the K-3 iii arrives. Hopefully will get to shoot some baseball with it yet this spring, but that's a much easier proposition when it comes to focusing. (Still plenty for the K-3 iii to help out with there, but where I get to shoot from involves less crossing of players.)
I think I'd read the tracking algorithm will (in many cases) be able to "predict" where and when the subject will move back into view, "break cover" so to speak, so that focus point is already anticipated. When I have time later I'll see if I can find that if no one else does so before me.

EDIT: found it.
The camera’s continuous autofocus (AF.C) mode allows you to maintain sharp focus on a subject, regardless of direction of motion. An improved motion prediction algorism accurately detects the subject’s complex movement, which was rather difficult to predict with previous models.

It also reduces the effect of the unstable motion speed and irregular stops and restarts, as well as the effect of obstacles.
04-12-2021, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What would you consider an optimal reaction to having player A {who you were focusing on} run behind player B just as you press the shutter?
Optimal? Keep focus on the player in question, using tracking algorithms to follow him as his disappears and then reappears a moment later. If I keep the shutter pressed while he's out of view I'd expect a few frames where nothing is really in focus, or at least nothing that was supposed to be.

---------- Post added 04-12-21 at 02:20 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
I'm hoping that the expanded selectable AF points and the joystick mean that if it does jump to player B (not unreasonable), I could move the focus points to player A quickly (once visible) and hit the focus button to lock on again.

Tracking and especially the depth data and predictions could make this all very interesting. If player B obstructs for only a split second, perhaps the camera will stay close enough to player A's distance to pick them up as the desired subject.

It looks like lacrosse is going to be done here before the K-3 iii arrives. Hopefully will get to shoot some baseball with it yet this spring, but that's a much easier proposition when it comes to focusing. (Still plenty for the K-3 iii to help out with there, but where I get to shoot from involves less crossing of players.)
I'm going to have to completely retrain myself once the K-3 Mark III arrives. I've learned to only use single point focus with back button for sports. With the K-3 II using more than one focus point results in somewhere between a bit lower keeper rate, to a comically lower keeper rate. Years ago I tried to use 9- or 27-point on soccer, and a got a lot of awesome shots of tack-sharp parents on the sidelines watching my blurry kids do cool stuff. Or trees or parking lot signs. The whole concept of usable tracking autofocus is new and foreign to me. Hopefully it's the magic wonderland I'm dreaming about. Luckily my kids' leagues go into early June so I should get some opportunities to try.
04-12-2021, 01:43 PM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kobie Quote
That's what AF hold is for (available on at least the K-3, K-3 II, KP, K-1, K-1 II and K-3 III when it's released). It will hold the AF focal point and ignore an obstruction maintaining the in focus point of the original subject distance. Generally (from my testing and use cases) AF hold works beautifully (on a K-3) when on the X and Y axis (you can easily shoot a bird through branches with no issue). Z-axis is tricky since AF hold will "hold" the point of focus lock momentarily so if the subject is coming directly at you, AF hold won't work so well since it'll still be locked onto the prior point of focus. Hopefully with the K-3 III, the new prediction algorithm takes care of this.
I imagine those bodies, since they don't use the ancient SAFOX X that my K-70 has, perform at least a little bit better in that regard. However, I find that Pentax AF has been so prone to jumping to focus on the background, even with testing a range of AF hold settings (both with screwdrive Tamron 70–200 and SDM DA*300) .

QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
It also reduces the effect of the unstable motion speed and irregular stops and restarts, as well as the effect of obstacles.[/I]
This could be a major game changer for sports!

QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I'm going to have to completely retrain myself once the K-3 Mark III arrives. I've learned to only use single point focus with back button for sports. With the K-3 II using more than one focus point results in somewhere between a bit lower keeper rate, to a comically lower keeper rate. Years ago I tried to use 9- or 27-point on soccer, and a got a lot of awesome shots of tack-sharp parents on the sidelines watching my blurry kids do cool stuff. Or trees or parking lot signs. The whole concept of usable tracking autofocus is new and foreign to me. Hopefully it's the magic wonderland I'm dreaming about. Luckily my kids' leagues go into early June so I should get some opportunities to try.
I found I needed to give up single point with lacrosse when I started shooting it this spring. Single point on the K-70 does OK on baseball, but that's only until you want to shoot someone trying to steal second or third while aiming directly down the baseline. I have tack sharp photos of hills behind lacrosse and outfield fences from baseball that make me bash my head against the wall. Baseball especially, I have no idea why the camera can't figure out that the one thing that isn't the color of the outfield fence might be the thing to focus on. More AF points alone would probably help with that, but being able to use the joystick to quickly get the right outfielder in focus and then getting more fps will mean actually catching the peak moment of action. Too many sequences I have feature an outfielder staring at a ball that isn't even in frame and then holding the ball in his glove. I know the ball falls quickly, but not that quickly.
04-12-2021, 02:07 PM   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Years ago I tried to use 9- or 27-point on soccer, and a got a lot of awesome shots of tack-sharp parents on the sidelines watching my blurry kids do cool stuff. Or trees or parking lot signs. The whole concept of usable tracking autofocus is new and foreign to me. Hopefully it's the magic wonderland I'm dreaming about. Luckily my kids' leagues go into early June so I should get some opportunities to try.
I tend to use single-point AF on my KP simply because the processor has trouble keeping up.
Using a faster processor is alone a reason to want a newer body - but the K-3iii won’t fit into my budget .... maybe the lower-tier “APS-C” will.
04-12-2021, 02:26 PM   #523
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
Baseball especially, I have no idea why the camera can't figure out that the one thing that isn't the color of the outfield fence might be the thing to focus on.
Because the poor K70 doesn't use color information at all, it only has a simple 77 segments metering module.
You'd need at least the now old 86k RGB sensor, and then, the camera would have to guess what you want it to focus on (unless you're telling it); but at least it would have a chance.
04-12-2021, 03:08 PM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Because the poor K70 doesn't use color information at all, it only has a simple 77 segments metering module.
You'd need at least the now old 86k RGB sensor, and then, the camera would have to guess what you want it to focus on (unless you're telling it); but at least it would have a chance.
Good point. I had in mind the one dark object against a bright background as I wrote that, which I guess I had hope that the metering module might be able to pick up on, but I know there's a bunch that I don't know about how things work behind the scenes.
04-12-2021, 03:15 PM - 1 Like   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
Good point. I had in mind the one dark object against a bright background as I wrote that, which I guess I had hope that the metering module might be able to pick up on, but I know there's a bunch that I don't know about how things work behind the scenes.
Yeah, that old SAFOX often prefers the background to the subject. It should only care about contrast, I think...
I can't wait to test the K-3iii; can we say, problem solved?
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