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04-14-2021, 08:55 PM - 1 Like   #616
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Amen!

QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
We get it. You don't like the the K-3 III in particular, or Pentax in general. Can we move on now?
Can I get an "Amen!" on that!
another conversation is being sidetracked
Amen indeed....

P.S.: My Premium Black kit is coming and I will love it.

04-15-2021, 12:56 AM - 1 Like   #617
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My comment was describing the expectations from the general photo gear audience as exemplified by youtubers and commenters. A product that fail to meet the cost spec improvements that marketing and the majority of manufacturers are pushing will get picked on. As I've said we might be approaching a plateau where the gear heads become more of a fringe or where the split between performance and enjoyment becomes more explicit. A situation Pentax is hoping for and trying to create.

I struggle to find kind enough words for posting here to describe those that can't read a straight analysis of why the price and performance of the K-3 III doesn't meet universal praise. Without reading into it what my personal opinions of the camera might be. The K-3 III may have D500 beating AF but it's unknown and many people, including pentaxians, doubt it.

I've not stated any opinion on the K-3 III on this thread. It's not a camera for me as I've gone ff and I don't need afc or continuous shooting. The shutter button and large viewfinder are the attractive features for me and the K-1 already has those. I've repeatedly said how much I agree with the general direction Ricoh is taking by removing flip screens and improving haptics. I have no interest in features beyond handling, ovf and image quality. In other words I have very little in common with milc spec hunters.
04-15-2021, 01:01 AM - 1 Like   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Whose expectation? What does it mean, to "blast out of the water"? What are you comparing with? How come we keep hearing about the Great Mirrorless on PentaxForums?

Did the D500 "blast" the D300s "out of the water"? It only had 3x the AF points, 3 extra fps and a few other performance improvements - yet it was more expensive
Come on, it also went from a max ISO of 3200 to 51K, 12 to 20MPs... and it was at a time where sensor IQ was still improving. I wouldn't call those "a few other improvements".

The K-3iii is a solid upgrade in every metric, bit and piece though.

Last edited by Serkevan; 04-15-2021 at 01:08 AM.
04-15-2021, 01:07 AM - 1 Like   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
My comment was describing the expectations from the general photo gear audience as exemplified by youtubers and commenters. A product that fail to meet the cost spec improvements that marketing and the majority of manufacturers are pushing will get picked on. As I've said we might be approaching a plateau where the gear heads become more of a fringe or where the split between performance and enjoyment becomes more explicit. A situation Pentax is hoping for and trying to create.

I struggle to find kind enough words for posting here to describe those that can't read a straight analysis of why the price and performance of the K-3 III doesn't meet universal praise. Without reading into it what my personal opinions of the camera might be. The K-3 III may have D500 beating AF but it's unknown and many people, including pentaxians, doubt it.

I've not stated any opinion on the K-3 III on this thread. It's not a camera for me as I've gone ff and I don't need afc or continuous shooting. The shutter button and large viewfinder are the attractive features for me and the K-1 already has those. I've repeatedly said how much I agree with the general direction Ricoh is taking by removing flip screens and improving haptics. I have no interest in features beyond handling, ovf and image quality. In other words I have very little in common with milc spec hunters.
I think Ricoh is not aiming at general audience. They know that they cannot win anything substantial there. Just like Sony for example cannot win anything in general smartphone market yet they are still making relatively unique phones at "flagship" prices and are earning money on them. At least they started to last year. I think Pentax is aiming at similar, niche audience that wants either modern DSLR or just the promise of unique photographic experience. Ricoh wants to deliver on that promise, but such things costs more money then standard mass produced gear.

04-15-2021, 01:12 AM   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Come on, it also went from a max ISO of 3200 to 51K, 12 to 20MPs... and it was at a time where sensor IQ was still improving. I wouldn't call those "a few other improvements".

The K-3iii is a solid upgrade in every metric, bit and piece though.
And the K3iii also has a much improved image quality - at a time where sensor IQ is pretty much stagnant. The analogy stands, if the K-3iii didn't "blast" its predecessor "out of the water" neither did the D500.
04-15-2021, 01:49 AM - 1 Like   #621
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And the K3iii also has a much improved image quality - at a time where sensor IQ is pretty much stagnant. The analogy stands, if the K-3iii didn't "blast" its predecessor "out of the water" neither did the D500.
Its not the K-3 that is the $2k five year old benchmark being discussed its the d500.

The K-3 III looks like a great camera but its explicitly (5 principles) not adding value by chasing specs. This confounds the specheads. No surprise.
04-15-2021, 03:03 AM - 3 Likes   #622
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The biggest the K-3 III does is it emphasizes Pentax's commitment, not only continuing to make SLRs, but to improve the SLR shooting experience. Shooting with an optical viewfinder may become more niche over time, but there are still a solid group of photographers out there that like that experience and will be willing to pay for it. Brands like Canon and Nikon are at best waffling on how to distribute resources between MILC and SLR models and are giving the largest resources to MILC at present.

Will Pentax gain vast market share through the K-3 III? Probably not, but I do expect it to sell well and I do expect photographers who connect with Pentax's ethos to purchase it going forward. 2000 dollars is a lot for a camera, but it really seems as though the whole market is moving to higher price points and the days of the 500 dollar camera may be far behind us.

04-15-2021, 03:11 AM - 1 Like   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Its not the K-3 that is the $2k five year old benchmark being discussed its the d500.

The K-3 III looks like a great camera but its explicitly (5 principles) not adding value by chasing specs. This confounds the specheads. No surprise.
Is it a benchmark now, or something to be "blasted out of the water"?

A benchmark, fine, but that would explain the K-3iii's price. The amount of improvements included in the K-3iii is staggering.

To "blast out of the water" the current top performing DSLR, that's an intentionally impossible target. Particularly since you don't even care to define it
I can imagine, if the image quality would be much better - that won't count, but card write speeds absolutely do. And so on.
04-15-2021, 03:50 AM   #624
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May be this is already posted but have you seen there are 3 DNG files here: PENTAX K-3 MARK III - pre launch - raiklight.de ? Hard to see if there is an improvement compared to K-3II as the files are very underexposed.
04-15-2021, 04:45 AM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
May be this is already posted but have you seen there are 3 DNG files here: PENTAX K-3 MARK III - pre launch - raiklight.de ? Hard to see if there is an improvement compared to K-3II as the files are very underexposed.
Hard to tell without files from other cameras to compare, but I took one of those and pulled it up 2.5 stops plus more in the shadows and it looks pretty good to me.
04-15-2021, 05:34 AM   #626
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
To "blast out of the water" the current top performing DSLR, that's an intentionally impossible target
Sony style eye af, super writing speeds, peaking, wysiwyg ie. mirrorless would be considered a huge upgrade. You could perhaps conceive improvements that aren't mirrorless that would still count for the speccers but I don't think they are realistic. Perhaps hybrid vf and endless buffer. (but the d500 already has the latter?)

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
if the image quality would be much better - that won't count, but card write speeds absolutely do. And so on.
Correct.
04-15-2021, 05:43 AM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It's hard to follow along when one only gets the replies.
true enough
04-15-2021, 05:46 AM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
If you want to make it harder for the mods the question you need to ask yourself is "Do I feel lucky?"
I have been wondering for awhile if "Mod" stands, not for Moderator, but rather for "Modifier?" As in, "Wow, this thread is going to need major modification. I guess I'll shut it down for a bit, roll up my sleeves and see if it can be salvaged..."
04-15-2021, 05:48 AM - 3 Likes   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Sony style eye af, super writing speeds, peaking, wysiwyg ie. mirrorless would be considered a huge upgrade. You could perhaps conceive improvements that aren't mirrorless that would still count for the speccers but I don't think they are realistic. Perhaps hybrid vf and endless buffer. (but the d500 already has the latter?)
SO you don't giva a damn about new SLR specs but you do care a lot about MILC specs.
Why are you even looking at Pentax for an SLR then ??
04-15-2021, 06:01 AM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
SO you don't giva a damn about new SLR specs but you do care a lot about MILC specs.
Why are you even looking at Pentax for an SLR then ??
Haha, still completely missing the point. I'm talking about why a certain group of reviewers and consumers won't understand the pricing and features of the K-3 III and why comparing the K-3 III to a five year old camera that had "similar" specs and price won't convince very many people of the bang for buck the system provides.

*I* want Pentax to produce the GR of FF dslr's. Even more focussed on the basics of photography and honing that down to where almost nothing remains.
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