K-3 III manual is available for download (no joke)

Paul the Sunman · 04-01-2021, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by wooly11

I hope the camera works better than the manual downloads which don't work at all. Says faulty file - not very good start!!

No problem at all on my macs.

stevebrot · 04-01-2021, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by wooly11

I hope the camera works better than the manual downloads which don't work at all. Says faulty file - not very good start!!

Works fine on my Win 10 laptop.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-01-2021, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

the new feature how to use AV or TAV for K and M lenses is left out

I found it in the appendix under "Using the Aperture Ring" (page 118)

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

Eye-Focus is absent

The subject recognition feature is painfully undocumented at present. Worst case might be that it may not be settable as to what to recognize.

Steve

Unregistered User 8 · 04-02-2021, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by belaku

Did anyone find anything about Eye- Focus? I did a quick search - there are 30 mentions of "eye" in the manual, none regarding Eye-Focus. Excellent camera.

I could be mistaken (wouldn't be the first time

) but I don't believe there is eye-detection capabilities with this camera. There is an Eye-Sensor to detect when an eye/face is looking through the viewfinder. As I interpret the manual, subject recognition allows for locking focus on to a subject, and as the camera moves, the selected focus points will track that subject as the camera moves to reframe the shot. In the full specs (see below) there is no mention of Eye-Detect as a feature, which I think would be mentioned it was an auto focus feature.

In the manual there is mention of the eye sensor (pages 17, 107)

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/422343-k-3-mark-iii-complete-specs.html

But like I said, I could be misinterpreting the manual............

EDIT - The link in the thread below mentions a " verbal " acknowledgment of face, eye, bird detect...........

New K-3 III video from Ricoh: OVF face, eye and bird detection is coming. - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by Unregistered User 8; 04-02-2021 at 01:36 AM.

beholder3 · 04-02-2021, 12:39 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

The subject recognition feature is painfully undocumented at present. Worst case might be that it may not be settable as to what to recognize.

You misunderstand how things work.

All makers do nothing more than feed a machine learning algorithm tons of "typical" images to "recognize 2D patterns". The resulting machine "know-how" is put into camera firmware.
The camera then potentially recognizes all these patterns as a subject the photographer probably will want to focus on.
It does not understand the difference between a coffee mug and eyes and a whale or dog. It is all the same - a image pattern it might know to detect.

Other manufacturers experiment with "animal" versus "human" settings and they notoriously do not make a lot of difference and (the alleged differentiations) are rather unreliable.

I personally don't want a setting there either as this "setting" absolutely is a beginner DSL type "scene mode" then. I do not want to fiddle with camera setting just because I take a photo of item X and then item Y.

You let it auto detect patterns or you choose them yourselves via focus point. Typically it is best to have a button dedicated to de-/activate pattern recognition at will.

**wooly11** · 04-02-2021, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Works fine on my Win 10 laptop.

Steve

Well That's great ! I'm really pleased that you all managed to download the Manual so easily - you made me feel a proper Numpty!!! In spite of running the very latest windows software and subscribing to Microsoft 365 and updates neither of my laptops would play ball even after disabling all security. ………… But the IPhone did play ball and I managed to download a copy on to it and then email a copy to myself which then opened perfectly on my laptop. - That's modern technology for you

But at long last I am a happy bunny and can start to digest the manual before my Silver kit arrives

stevebrot · 04-02-2021, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

You misunderstand how things work.

Hence my comment about dismal documentation.

Originally posted by beholder3

The camera then potentially recognizes all these patterns as a subject the photographer probably will want to focus on.
It does not understand the difference between a coffee mug and eyes and a whale or dog. It is all the same - a image pattern it might know to detect.

This is how I read the explanation in the manual, though it hinted at the ability to choose.

Originally posted by beholder3

You let it auto detect patterns or you choose them yourselves via focus point.

This is the part I could not find. Thanks for the clarification. It sounds less like eye-focus and more like, "see this...follow this". Do you have a link or page number in the manual?

Steve

Painter · 04-02-2021, 08:14 AM

I think you received a slightly negative tone in replies primarily because you started off with the comment that you hope the camera works better than the manual downloads. On to the manual now I suppose.

Originally posted by wooly11

Well That's great ! I'm really pleased that you all managed to download the Manual so easily - you made me feel a proper Numpty!!! In spite of running the very latest windows software and subscribing to Microsoft 365 and updates neither of my laptops would play ball even after disabling all security. ………… But the IPhone did play ball and I managed to download a copy on to it and then email a copy to myself which then opened perfectly on my laptop. - That's modern technology for you

But at long last I am a happy bunny and can start to digest the manual before my Silver kit arrives

reh321 · 04-02-2021, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

You misunderstand how things work.

Originally posted by stevebrot

Hence my comment about dismal documentation.

When I dumped out my collection of books from the Purdue Bookstore as a freshman, I first looked at the FORTRAN manual - and almost changed majors right away.
In the 1960's people would say about IBM manuals "to be read only after you use the system to explain what you have seen".
Now, manuals are written by a specialists - not by the developers - but they are still most useful to explain what you see.
Perhaps we need to wait until some time has passed, and see if a modern documenter in the footsteps of Yvon Bourque can do a better job.

**gaweidert** · 04-02-2021, 09:27 AM

When I got my K5 in 2012 or so, I found the manual very frustrating. It was great at documenting the features but if you did not know what all the features were, it was pretty much useless.

The manual for my wife's Sony all in one camera is a total waste of paper.

beholder3 · 04-02-2021, 09:50 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

This is how I read the explanation in the manual, though it hinted at the ability to choose.

Pages 22/62 reference the ability to switch "subject recognition" on or off.
Assuming it has been trained to recognize faces and eyes, it will follow it and focus on them. But also focus on a photo of a face on a tshirt...

Originally posted by stevebrot

This is the part I could not find. Thanks for the clarification. It sounds less like eye-focus and more like, "see this...follow this". Do you have a link or page number in the manual?

The manual has no explanation on how it works but only how to switch it on. So yes, "see this... follow this" is about right.
You'll see the similarities between this Nikon D5 promotion here: https://youtu.be/IZHWP8LweXo?t=275 (between 4:35 and 4:46) and the Pentax one https://youtu.be/Sq5nME9WVsQ?t=27 (between 0:27 and 0:35).

I just hope the switch can be assigned to a button.

**wooly11** · 04-02-2021, 09:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Painter

I think you received a slightly negative tone in replies primarily because you started off with the comment that you hope the camera works better than the manual downloads. On to the manual now I suppose.

Thank you for your comments, after a few hours the frustration got the better of me. Yes, I have now printed and bound the introduction with all of the default settings, I find this a very useful reference to tuck into my camera bag rather than ruining the full printed manual.

stevebrot · 04-02-2021, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

You'll see the similarities between this Nikon D5 promotion here: https://youtu.be/IZHWP8LweXo?t=275 (between 4:35 and 4:46) and the Pentax one https://youtu.be/Sq5nME9WVsQ?t=27 (between 0:27 and 0:35).

Thanks...Those are helpful.

Steve

bencoskater · 04-03-2021, 03:36 PM - **2 Likes**

Eye detection is implemented. An ambassador tested it on a picture (Z Axis couldn't be tested though):

You Tube

RobSpain · 04-19-2021, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Kobayashi.K

Be careful to judge from the manual which features the camera exactly has. There are many omissions to keep the manual small. For example, none of the parameters for the 12 Custom Image finishing tones is mentioned, the new feature how to use AV or TAV for K and M lenses is left out, and indeed Eye-Focus is absent. To give you an impression how compressed this manual is, it has a meager 148 pages compared to the K5-II which has 336 pages with less functions. I consulted the OM EM1X manual lately, it has 686 pages with every single feature documented.

So a huge amount of time and money is spent on research and testing, but many of the features are not documented in the user manual, which in effect means that they don't exist for the average user. It is beyond comprehension what the philosophy is behind such a strategy.

I find this very surprising. We'll have to wait till someone publishes a good eBook version!

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04-01-2021, 01:58 PM	#16
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by wooly11 I hope the camera works better than the manual downloads which don't work at all. Says faulty file - not very good start!! No problem at all on my macs.

04-01-2021, 09:39 PM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by wooly11 I hope the camera works better than the manual downloads which don't work at all. Says faulty file - not very good start!! Works fine on my Win 10 laptop. Steve

04-01-2021, 09:58 PM	#18
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Kobayashi.K the new feature how to use AV or TAV for K and M lenses is left out I found it in the appendix under "Using the Aperture Ring" (page 118) Originally posted by Kobayashi.K Eye-Focus is absent The subject recognition feature is painfully undocumented at present. Worst case might be that it may not be settable as to what to recognize. Steve

04-02-2021, 12:15 AM	#19
Unregistered User 8 Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,694	Originally posted by belaku Did anyone find anything about Eye- Focus? I did a quick search - there are 30 mentions of "eye" in the manual, none regarding Eye-Focus. Excellent camera. I could be mistaken (wouldn't be the first time ) but I don't believe there is eye-detection capabilities with this camera. There is an Eye-Sensor to detect when an eye/face is looking through the viewfinder. As I interpret the manual, subject recognition allows for locking focus on to a subject, and as the camera moves, the selected focus points will track that subject as the camera moves to reframe the shot. In the full specs (see below) there is no mention of Eye-Detect as a feature, which I think would be mentioned it was an auto focus feature. In the manual there is mention of the eye sensor (pages 17, 107) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/422343-k-3-mark-iii-complete-specs.html But like I said, I could be misinterpreting the manual............ EDIT - The link in the thread below mentions a " verbal " acknowledgment of face, eye, bird detect........... New K-3 III video from Ricoh: OVF face, eye and bird detection is coming. - PentaxForums.com Last edited by Unregistered User 8; 04-02-2021 at 01:36 AM.

04-02-2021, 12:39 AM - 1 Like	#20
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by stevebrot The subject recognition feature is painfully undocumented at present. Worst case might be that it may not be settable as to what to recognize. You misunderstand how things work. All makers do nothing more than feed a machine learning algorithm tons of "typical" images to "recognize 2D patterns". The resulting machine "know-how" is put into camera firmware. The camera then potentially recognizes all these patterns as a subject the photographer probably will want to focus on. It does not understand the difference between a coffee mug and eyes and a whale or dog. It is all the same - a image pattern it might know to detect. Other manufacturers experiment with "animal" versus "human" settings and they notoriously do not make a lot of difference and (the alleged differentiations) are rather unreliable. I personally don't want a setting there either as this "setting" absolutely is a beginner DSL type "scene mode" then. I do not want to fiddle with camera setting just because I take a photo of item X and then item Y. You let it auto detect patterns or you choose them yourselves via focus point. Typically it is best to have a button dedicated to de-/activate pattern recognition at will.

04-02-2021, 02:35 AM	#21
wooly11 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 49	Originally posted by stevebrot Works fine on my Win 10 laptop. Steve Well That's great ! I'm really pleased that you all managed to download the Manual so easily - you made me feel a proper Numpty!!! In spite of running the very latest windows software and subscribing to Microsoft 365 and updates neither of my laptops would play ball even after disabling all security. ………… But the IPhone did play ball and I managed to download a copy on to it and then email a copy to myself which then opened perfectly on my laptop. - That's modern technology for you But at long last I am a happy bunny and can start to digest the manual before my Silver kit arrives

04-02-2021, 06:04 AM	#22
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by beholder3 You misunderstand how things work. Hence my comment about dismal documentation. Originally posted by beholder3 The camera then potentially recognizes all these patterns as a subject the photographer probably will want to focus on. It does not understand the difference between a coffee mug and eyes and a whale or dog. It is all the same - a image pattern it might know to detect. This is how I read the explanation in the manual, though it hinted at the ability to choose. Originally posted by beholder3 You let it auto detect patterns or you choose them yourselves via focus point. This is the part I could not find. Thanks for the clarification. It sounds less like eye-focus and more like, "see this...follow this". Do you have a link or page number in the manual? Steve

04-02-2021, 08:14 AM	#23
Painter Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	I think you received a slightly negative tone in replies primarily because you started off with the comment that you hope the camera works better than the manual downloads. On to the manual now I suppose. Originally posted by wooly11 Well That's great ! I'm really pleased that you all managed to download the Manual so easily - you made me feel a proper Numpty!!! In spite of running the very latest windows software and subscribing to Microsoft 365 and updates neither of my laptops would play ball even after disabling all security. ………… But the IPhone did play ball and I managed to download a copy on to it and then email a copy to myself which then opened perfectly on my laptop. - That's modern technology for you But at long last I am a happy bunny and can start to digest the manual before my Silver kit arrives

04-02-2021, 08:51 AM	#24
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by beholder3 You misunderstand how things work. Originally posted by stevebrot Hence my comment about dismal documentation. When I dumped out my collection of books from the Purdue Bookstore as a freshman, I first looked at the FORTRAN manual - and almost changed majors right away. In the 1960's people would say about IBM manuals "to be read only after you use the system to explain what you have seen". Now, manuals are written by a specialists - not by the developers - but they are still most useful to explain what you see. Perhaps we need to wait until some time has passed, and see if a modern documenter in the footsteps of Yvon Bourque can do a better job.

04-02-2021, 09:27 AM	#25
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	When I got my K5 in 2012 or so, I found the manual very frustrating. It was great at documenting the features but if you did not know what all the features were, it was pretty much useless. The manual for my wife's Sony all in one camera is a total waste of paper.

04-02-2021, 09:50 AM - 1 Like	#26
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by stevebrot This is how I read the explanation in the manual, though it hinted at the ability to choose. Pages 22/62 reference the ability to switch "subject recognition" on or off. Assuming it has been trained to recognize faces and eyes, it will follow it and focus on them. But also focus on a photo of a face on a tshirt... Originally posted by stevebrot This is the part I could not find. Thanks for the clarification. It sounds less like eye-focus and more like, "see this...follow this". Do you have a link or page number in the manual? The manual has no explanation on how it works but only how to switch it on. So yes, "see this... follow this" is about right. You'll see the similarities between this Nikon D5 promotion here: https://youtu.be/IZHWP8LweXo?t=275 (between 4:35 and 4:46) and the Pentax one https://youtu.be/Sq5nME9WVsQ?t=27 (between 0:27 and 0:35). I just hope the switch can be assigned to a button.

04-02-2021, 09:51 AM - 1 Like	#27
wooly11 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 49	Originally posted by Painter I think you received a slightly negative tone in replies primarily because you started off with the comment that you hope the camera works better than the manual downloads. On to the manual now I suppose. Thank you for your comments, after a few hours the frustration got the better of me. Yes, I have now printed and bound the introduction with all of the default settings, I find this a very useful reference to tuck into my camera bag rather than ruining the full printed manual.

04-02-2021, 12:04 PM	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by beholder3 You'll see the similarities between this Nikon D5 promotion here: https://youtu.be/IZHWP8LweXo?t=275 (between 4:35 and 4:46) and the Pentax one https://youtu.be/Sq5nME9WVsQ?t=27 (between 0:27 and 0:35). Thanks...Those are helpful. Steve

04-19-2021, 09:55 AM	#30
RobSpain Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Malaga province Posts: 488	Originally posted by Kobayashi.K Be careful to judge from the manual which features the camera exactly has. There are many omissions to keep the manual small. For example, none of the parameters for the 12 Custom Image finishing tones is mentioned, the new feature how to use AV or TAV for K and M lenses is left out, and indeed Eye-Focus is absent. To give you an impression how compressed this manual is, it has a meager 148 pages compared to the K5-II which has 336 pages with less functions. I consulted the OM EM1X manual lately, it has 686 pages with every single feature documented. So a huge amount of time and money is spent on research and testing, but many of the features are not documented in the user manual, which in effect means that they don't exist for the average user. It is beyond comprehension what the philosophy is behind such a strategy. I find this very surprising. We'll have to wait till someone publishes a good eBook version!