K-m down to 420 Euros

thibs · 11-25-2008, 12:05 AM

TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1
Interesting....

K-m +18-55L -> 420€
K-m +18-55L +50-200L -> 540€
K-m +18-55L + DA40 -> 680€

Not bad prices, it goes down as it should. a bit more, plz Pentax

falconeye · 11-27-2008, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by thibs

K-m +18-55L -> 420€

This was the topic of a very heated discussion here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/42708-sorry-henry-forum.html

You are right, The European price for K-m (454,- USD w/o VAT) is good. This price isn't new.

But even more surprising (and I think this is a new price) is the price of the K200D in the same shop:

K200D body: USD 398.38 w/o VAT (200 USD less than B&H !!)

This is original stock from Pentax Germany.

Again, why K200D is cheaper than K-m must be due to demand and the fact that K-m is the newer model and that there may be some inventory now for K200D.

regken · 11-27-2008, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

You are right, The European price for K-m (454,- USD w/o VAT) is good. This price isn't new.

But even more surprising (and I think this is a new price) is the price of the K200D in the same shop:

K200D body: USD 398.38 w/o VAT (200 USD less than B&H !!)

This is original stock from Pentax Germany.

Again, why K200D is cheaper than K-m must be due to demand and the fact that K-m is the newer model and that there may be some inventory now for K200D.

It looks like the Euro market is as screwed up as badly as the US market. Old stock bought at a lower price may be the reason. Only other plausible answer is the K200D is going to be discontinued and Pentax will go back to offering just two models.

creampuff · 11-27-2008, 09:07 AM

Since you have VAT in Europe, shouldn't the price include VAT? That would give a more realistic idea of price as unless one is a tourist who can get a tax refund, it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo.

thibs · 11-27-2008, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Since you have VAT in Europe, shouldn't the price include VAT? That would give a more realistic idea of price as unless one is a tourist who can get a tax refund, it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo.

Quoting without VAT is intetresting as for comparing with US price (currencies rates etc.) but is useless as for price anybody will effectively pay. As discussing "buying power", we need price including VAT.

vinzer · 11-27-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by regken

It looks like the Euro market is as screwed up as badly as the US market. Old stock bought at a lower price may be the reason. Only other plausible answer is the K200D is going to be discontinued and Pentax will go back to offering just two models.

I hope that's not the case. I like the value proposition the K-xxx series is now offering me: AA batteries + in-body IS + sealing.

cyg · 11-27-2008, 09:16 PM

For once some cameras seem to be cheaper in Europe than in North America. Wow.

Although to be fair most of the "usual suspects" I have checked are a good 10-20% higher, so why TeKaDe is dealing so cheap is a bit of a mystery...

And for the record VAT in Europe is typically in the 15-25% region: Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edvinas · 11-28-2008, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by cyg

And for the record VAT in Europe is typically in the 15-25% region: Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, Wikipedia isn't always right. For example Personal income tax has never been 35% in Lithuania... If they have it wrong for Lithuania, who can guaranty that other countries taxes are correct?

falconeye · 11-28-2008, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo.

Originally posted by thibs

As discussing "buying power", we need price including VAT.

Originally posted by cyg

Although to be fair most of the "usual suspects" I have checked are a good 10-20% higher, so why TeKaDe is dealing so cheap is a bit of a mystery...

VAT in Germany is 19%. Some States in the US (like California) have VAT too. I am just following the tradition on a US forum to quote prices w/o VAT.

Then, it is the only way to compare prices cross borders.

And not everybody pays VAT. For some of my cameras I didn't because I use them for business.

TeKaDe is a premium Pentax dealer and their pricing pretty much reflects current Pentax Europe volume prices. No mystery here. They aren't even the cheapest. But I agree that there are more expensive stores ...

*************************

I checked retail store prices to verify they are higher and as a big surprise found this:

PENTAX K-m +18-55 DAL KIT on stock 379.00 €

which is

USD 409.88 w/o VAT

This is from biggest photo store in Munich and you find it online here:
Foto-Video-Media Sauter

Any Münchner (Munich inhabitant) walking into the shop will be tempted to buy it

Andreas · 11-28-2008, 04:22 AM

In Belgium (EU) we have for some time now:

K200D (body only) = 385 EUR (incl. 4 Gb SD-card)
K-m + 18-55mm = 449 EUR

Both VAT incl. (I believe it's 21%)

see www.studio73.be (Dutch/English/French). This is a reputable dealer.

falconeye · 11-28-2008, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Any Münchner (Munich inhabitant) walking into the shop will be tempted to buy it

Ok, i made the mistake and walked in. Now I am a happy owner of a K-m too

This is my photo of proof

At 379,-€ (incl. 19% VAT) (or 409$ w/o VAT), I couldn't resist. After my buddies saw it, I already got a request to sell it to them

At ~400$, this clearly is the best deal in town right now. I know, you even can get a K200D at this price here, but I like the K-m better. It is a great 2nd body.

cyg · 11-28-2008, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Well, Wikipedia isn't always right.

Well you can say that again!

The point was to provide a quick overview of VAT, and hopefully a bit more informative than "VAT is very high in Europe".

My experience from living in various country is that it's virtually impossible to compare income tax rates anyway because income tax is usually calculated using totally different formulas and income bases, plus salary structures can be very different in different countries.

cyg · 11-28-2008, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

TeKaDe is a premium Pentax dealer and their pricing pretty much reflects current Pentax Europe volume prices. No mystery here. They aren't even the cheapest. But I agree that there are more expensive stores ...

You guys over in Germany are pretty lucky!

I have been checking French stores as I will travel there over Christmas and the best I could find was in the 470-480€ for the K-m kit, and about 400€ for the K200d body (which is indeed a good deal, but I want the smaller K-m).

If prices could settle below 400€ for the K-m kit that you quote, Pentax would surely make much progress in the entry level.

falconeye · 11-28-2008, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by cyg

I have been checking French stores as I will travel there over Christmas

It would probably be cheapest to have it shipped to US because you won't pay VAT then.

cyg · 11-28-2008, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

It would probably be cheapest to have it shipped to US because you won't pay VAT then.

I actually hadn't thought about that possibility (as it does not usually make much sense) but that's an interesting idea. (assuming my German would hold enough to go through the ordering process)

Of course the Canadian customs would charge sales tax (13% in Ontario) + some duties. Actually looking at this thread made me realise that the Canadian price is not so bad: 580$ (cdn), that is, around 370€. Maybe it's only the US getting shafted this time... I guess you have to be ready to pay extra to have a k2000d rather than a K-m like the rest of us. ;-)

11-25-2008, 12:05 AM	#1
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	K-m down to 420 Euros TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1 Interesting.... K-m +18-55L -> 420€ K-m +18-55L +50-200L -> 540€ K-m +18-55L + DA40 -> 680€ Not bad prices, it goes down as it should. a bit more, plz Pentax

11-27-2008, 05:16 AM	#2
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Pentax DSLR now for under 400$ Originally posted by thibs K-m +18-55L -> 420€ This was the topic of a very heated discussion here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/42708-sorry-henry-forum.html You are right, The European price for K-m (454,- USD w/o VAT) is good. This price isn't new. But even more surprising (and I think this is a new price) is the price of the K200D in the same shop: K200D body: USD 398.38 w/o VAT (200 USD less than B&H !!) This is original stock from Pentax Germany. Again, why K200D is cheaper than K-m must be due to demand and the fact that K-m is the newer model and that there may be some inventory now for K200D.

11-28-2008, 04:01 AM	#9
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	K-m found for 409$ Originally posted by creampuff it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo. Originally posted by thibs As discussing "buying power", we need price including VAT. Originally posted by cyg Although to be fair most of the "usual suspects" I have checked are a good 10-20% higher, so why TeKaDe is dealing so cheap is a bit of a mystery... VAT in Germany is 19%. Some States in the US (like California) have VAT too. I am just following the tradition on a US forum to quote prices w/o VAT. Then, it is the only way to compare prices cross borders. And not everybody pays VAT. For some of my cameras I didn't because I use them for business. TeKaDe is a premium Pentax dealer and their pricing pretty much reflects current Pentax Europe volume prices. No mystery here. They aren't even the cheapest. But I agree that there are more expensive stores ... *********************** I checked retail store prices to verify they are higher and as a big surprise found this: PENTAX K-m +18-55 DAL KIT on stock 379.00 € which is USD 409.88** w/o VAT This is from biggest photo store in Munich and you find it online here: Foto-Video-Media Sauter Any Münchner (Munich inhabitant) walking into the shop will be tempted to buy it

11-28-2008, 04:22 AM	#10
Andreas Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 75	Belgium In Belgium (EU) we have for some time now: K200D (body only) = 385 EUR (incl. 4 Gb SD-card) K-m + 18-55mm = 449 EUR Both VAT incl. (I believe it's 21%) see www.studio73.be (Dutch/English/French). This is a reputable dealer.

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11-27-2008, 05:50 AM	#3
regken Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangor, Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,377	Originally posted by falconeye You are right, The European price for K-m (454,- USD w/o VAT) is good. This price isn't new. But even more surprising (and I think this is a new price) is the price of the K200D in the same shop: K200D body: USD 398.38 w/o VAT (200 USD less than B&H !!) This is original stock from Pentax Germany. Again, why K200D is cheaper than K-m must be due to demand and the fact that K-m is the newer model and that there may be some inventory now for K200D. It looks like the Euro market is as screwed up as badly as the US market. Old stock bought at a lower price may be the reason. Only other plausible answer is the K200D is going to be discontinued and Pentax will go back to offering just two models.

11-27-2008, 09:07 AM	#4
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Since you have VAT in Europe, shouldn't the price include VAT? That would give a more realistic idea of price as unless one is a tourist who can get a tax refund, it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo.

11-27-2008, 10:32 AM	#5
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Originally posted by creampuff Since you have VAT in Europe, shouldn't the price include VAT? That would give a more realistic idea of price as unless one is a tourist who can get a tax refund, it seems kinda meaningless to quote prices excluding tax. VAT in the Eurozone is pretty steep imo. Quoting without VAT is intetresting as for comparing with US price (currencies rates etc.) but is useless as for price anybody will effectively pay. As discussing "buying power", we need price including VAT.

11-27-2008, 06:42 PM	#6
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	Originally posted by regken It looks like the Euro market is as screwed up as badly as the US market. Old stock bought at a lower price may be the reason. Only other plausible answer is the K200D is going to be discontinued and Pentax will go back to offering just two models. I hope that's not the case. I like the value proposition the K-xxx series is now offering me: AA batteries + in-body IS + sealing.

11-27-2008, 09:16 PM	#7
cyg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 134	For once some cameras seem to be cheaper in Europe than in North America. Wow. Although to be fair most of the "usual suspects" I have checked are a good 10-20% higher, so why TeKaDe is dealing so cheap is a bit of a mystery... And for the record VAT in Europe is typically in the 15-25% region: Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

11-28-2008, 03:09 AM	#8
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by cyg And for the record VAT in Europe is typically in the 15-25% region: Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Well, Wikipedia isn't always right. For example Personal income tax has never been 35% in Lithuania... If they have it wrong for Lithuania, who can guaranty that other countries taxes are correct?

11-28-2008, 07:21 AM	#11
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by falconeye Any Münchner (Munich inhabitant) walking into the shop will be tempted to buy it Ok, i made the mistake and walked in. Now I am a happy owner of a K-m too This is my photo of proof At 379,-€ (incl. 19% VAT) (or 409$ w/o VAT), I couldn't resist. After my buddies saw it, I already got a request to sell it to them At ~400$, this clearly is the best deal in town right now. I know, you even can get a K200D at this price here, but I like the K-m better. It is a great 2nd body.

11-28-2008, 08:05 AM	#12
cyg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 134	Originally posted by Edvinas Well, Wikipedia isn't always right. Well you can say that again! The point was to provide a quick overview of VAT, and hopefully a bit more informative than "VAT is very high in Europe". My experience from living in various country is that it's virtually impossible to compare income tax rates anyway because income tax is usually calculated using totally different formulas and income bases, plus salary structures can be very different in different countries.

11-28-2008, 08:12 AM	#13
cyg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 134	Originally posted by falconeye TeKaDe is a premium Pentax dealer and their pricing pretty much reflects current Pentax Europe volume prices. No mystery here. They aren't even the cheapest. But I agree that there are more expensive stores ... You guys over in Germany are pretty lucky! I have been checking French stores as I will travel there over Christmas and the best I could find was in the 470-480€ for the K-m kit, and about 400€ for the K200d body (which is indeed a good deal, but I want the smaller K-m). If prices could settle below 400€ for the K-m kit that you quote, Pentax would surely make much progress in the entry level.

11-28-2008, 08:53 AM	#14
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by cyg I have been checking French stores as I will travel there over Christmas It would probably be cheapest to have it shipped to US because you won't pay VAT then.

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11-28-2008, 11:47 AM	#15
cyg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 134	Originally posted by falconeye It would probably be cheapest to have it shipped to US because you won't pay VAT then. I actually hadn't thought about that possibility (as it does not usually make much sense) but that's an interesting idea. (assuming my German would hold enough to go through the ordering process) Of course the Canadian customs would charge sales tax (13% in Ontario) + some duties. Actually looking at this thread made me realise that the Canadian price is not so bad: 580$ (cdn), that is, around 370€. Maybe it's only the US getting shafted this time... I guess you have to be ready to pay extra to have a k2000d rather than a K-m like the rest of us. ;-)