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05-28-2021, 09:34 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
What kind of parts, exactly? Isn't GPS module present in every cheapo smartphone by now?
News is that there is a world-wide shortage of logic and memory chips that is affecting industries as varied as clocks and automobiles. I suspect that might be the "parts" referred to.


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05-28-2021, 09:48 AM   #32
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I heard there's a shortage of GPUs, mostly caused by cryptocoin miners. Didn't really hear about anything else...
05-28-2021, 10:20 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
I heard there's a shortage of GPUs, mostly caused by cryptocoin miners. Didn't really hear about anything else...
There are thousands of incomplete cars and trucks sitting in parking lots near factories waiting for the chips to complete them...

A number of cameras and lenses have delayed deliveries and mentioned supply issues -- and most of the COVID-specific stuff should have settled down by now.

And when I needed a new printer six weeks ago, there were hardly any in stock options...

-Eric
05-28-2021, 11:09 AM - 5 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
What kind of parts, exactly? Isn't GPS module present in every cheapo smartphone by now?
Computer chips are supply constrained. Soft metals are supply constrained. ABS plastic is now supply constrained.
My kids just got new cell phones yesterday. Apparently they are in short supply (cell phones, not my kids) in some markets because the manufacturers can't get components.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2021 at 12:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
I would ask more. If GPS can be embedded in virtually any smartphone, why it is a problem to find a tiny place in the camera which is much bigger. The argument about metal housing for new pentaprism which blocks signal I find ridiculous.
Sometimes it's best to let camera designers design cameras. I imagine if they could have put GPS onto the new camera without compromising something they felt couldn't be compromised, they would have.
Of course, it could all be a conspiracy to sell GPS units that they aren't making.

05-28-2021, 11:35 AM - 5 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Picked one up on the marketplace to go with my K-3iii, works a treat for geotagging but have not had a single cloudless night in the last 3 weeks to try the astrotracer functionality.
Amateur astronomers know that for decades: new gear causes cloudy nights.

E.
05-28-2021, 12:43 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by bofh Quote
Amateur astronomers know that for decades: new gear causes cloudy nights.

E.
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05-28-2021, 02:15 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My Anova sous vide cooker is that way. It supports an app for functions that should have been part of the UI on the cooker. The app also requires an active Internet connection...go figure....
Ugh. While the cooker might be able to function for more than a decade, the app will probably be unsupported long before that.

05-28-2021, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
I would ask more. If GPS can be embedded in virtually any smartphone, why it is a problem to find a tiny place in the camera which is much bigger. The argument about metal housing for new pentaprism which blocks signal I find ridiculous.
The issue is said to be the antenna, which needs a certain view of the sky.
I know that sometimes my iPhone cannot find the view in my auto that it needs.
I don't know more - do you have expertise in antenna design?
Unless you do - when I worked at a defense contractor, antenna designers were considered to be artists and were very much respected - I would keep my opinions to myself.
05-28-2021, 03:52 PM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
I would ask more. If GPS can be embedded in virtually any smartphone, why it is a problem to find a tiny place in the camera which is much bigger. The argument about metal housing for new pentaprism which blocks signal I find ridiculous.



Since I work in tech, I'll try to explain why having an all metal housing does block the antennae's ability to pick up a signal and that it's not a "made up excuse"..
Let's see.... Radio waves, The last time I checked, Radio and Television stations have their dishes/antennae's outside the building. I wonder why? It's simply the fact that radio signals don't do well passing through solid objects. Neither do Satellite signals. Actually, Satellite signals are even worse at passing through concrete, metal, brick, etc. Go under a bridge while listening to XM radio and the signal just ups and leaves.

You can easily test this using a phone as well. Enable your own GPS/Nav on your phone (disable cell data so it only uses the GPS module) and walk into a shopping mall or go into a building that has an elevator. Your signal will vanish because there's no clear line of sight. Line of sight? Yes. That means no material that blocks or actually reflects the signal, such as metal.
Phones are a bit different because they're now glass and plastic. Glass is used because the signal can get through much easier. Plastic is used because it also get's through.
The actual GPS antennae in a phone isn't surrounded only by metal, the top plate that houses the screen on a phone gives a direct line of sight for the GPS module.

If you want a camera that has reliable GPS built in, it'll have a plastic top plate. If you want a rock solid camera encased in a heavy duty all metal enclosure, well, then you get no built in GPS. It's the physics of how the signals work and what they require. I'd rather take a rock solid camera body that still gives me the option of GPS rather than a more fragile top plate just for a built in GPS module. *Starts remembering the threads of K-1 owners with damaged top plates by the hot shoe*

---------- Post added 05-28-21 at 06:53 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The issue is said to be the antenna, which needs a certain view of the sky.
I know that sometimes my iPhone cannot find the view in my auto that it needs.
I don't know more - do you have expertise in antenna design?
Unless you do - when I worked at a defense contractor, antenna designers were considered to be artists and were very much respected - I would keep my opinions to myself.
Exact-a-mundo!
05-28-2021, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kobie Quote
Since I work in tech, I'll try to explain why having an all metal housing does block the antennae's ability to pick up a signal and that it's not a "made up excuse"..
Let's see.... Radio waves, The last time I checked, Radio and Television stations have their dishes/antennae's outside the building. I wonder why? It's simply the fact that radio signals don't do well passing through solid objects. Neither do Satellite signals. Actually, Satellite signals are even worse at passing through concrete, metal, brick, etc. Go under a bridge while listening to XM radio and the signal just ups and leaves.

You can easily test this using a phone as well. Enable your own GPS/Nav on your phone (disable cell data so it only uses the GPS module) and walk into a shopping mall or go into a building that has an elevator. Your signal will vanish because there's no clear line of sight. Line of sight? Yes. That means no material that blocks or actually reflects the signal, such as metal.
Phones are a bit different because they're now glass and plastic. Glass is used because the signal can get through much easier. Plastic is used because it also get's through.
The actual GPS antennae in a phone isn't surrounded only by metal, the top plate that houses the screen on a phone gives a direct line of sight for the GPS module.
My last house had aluminum siding. No cell phone worked well inside... outside was fine...

And we don't usually notice when our phones lose GPS unless we're away from urban areas at least partially because the phones can get decent location if they have a couple of towers they can talk to (and the phone company knows where the towers are...)

Some phones (all newer ones?) will also use Wifi networks for location... which is why you may get advertisements fed to your phone as if you lived in the same town as your ISP...

-Eric
05-28-2021, 04:24 PM   #41
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Cool, I'm excited to see how this turns out.
05-28-2021, 04:50 PM   #42
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It wasn't the antenna. They have Wifi and Bluetooth working and GPS works in other cameras. It is true the antenna has to be exposed, probably via the plastic grip. There wasn't room for the GPS module because of the larger pentaprism.

Edited to add, yes each system has their own antenna.

Last edited by Tesla; 05-28-2021 at 05:08 PM.
05-28-2021, 05:00 PM - 2 Likes   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
It wasn't the antenna. They have Wifi and Bluetooth working and GPS works in other cameras. It is true the antenna has to be exposed, probably via the plastic grip. There wasn't room for the GPS module because of the larger pentaprism.
GPS has a completely different antenna system, which must have a view of satellites in the sky.
That is completely different from the type of system used by WiFi and Bluetooth,
I am not an antenna expert - I am merely repeating what I hear from experts.
05-28-2021, 05:22 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
It wasn't the antenna. They have Wifi and Bluetooth working and GPS works in other cameras. It is true the antenna has to be exposed, probably via the plastic grip. There wasn't room for the GPS module because of the larger pentaprism.

Edited to add, yes each system has their own antenna.
I understand there are some difficulties and compromises on any engineering design. But I do believe that where there's a will there's a way. Imbedded GPS probably was not number one priority for this camera.
05-28-2021, 05:34 PM - 6 Likes   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
It wasn't the antenna. They have Wifi and Bluetooth working and GPS works in other cameras. It is true the antenna has to be exposed, probably via the plastic grip. There wasn't room for the GPS module because of the larger pentaprism.

Edited to add, yes each system has their own antenna.
The WiFi and Bluetooth antennas face forward through the part of the grip where your fingertips go. The GPS needs upward line of sight, which is why it was put under plastic in place of the pop up flash in previous models. The larger pentaprism and its need for solid protection are what eliminated on board GPS. It’s done. I wish people would stop whingeing about this (and the lack of flippy screen). This is an amazing camera.
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