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12-01-2008, 09:31 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I think you're dreaming if you want this
The problem is you need a lot of energy for higher FPS. I'm surprised the K2000/m can go as fast as it can. The K30D has to go at least 5fps to match competitor's specs...
Someone please do correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you need five (5) AA batteries to match the power output of the D-LI50 (7.4v X 1700 mAh)? That would be one heavy and huge beast with 5 AA's stuffed in it - not to mention doubling up for the battery grip.

12-01-2008, 09:45 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Someone please do correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you need five (5) AA batteries to match the power output of the D-LI50 (7.4v X 1700 mAh)? That would be one heavy and huge beast with 5 AA's stuffed in it - not to mention doubling up for the battery grip.
And not to mention that 5 is like insanely stupid count for batteries. Most battery-packs come in a set of four or two.
12-01-2008, 10:39 AM   #18
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And then you've got to remember that a whole pile of people will stick 1.2V NiMH rechargables in it, and then complain that the autofocus is slow....
12-01-2008, 11:03 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
less worry about Pentax and OEMs discontinuing production of the K10/20D batteries in the future
Minolta batteries fit fine. I have a backup battery that is a Minolta...slightly less capacity, but works fine.

And I also do mean the other features (live view, long life, fast cycling popup flash, etc.) that people expect nowadays. E.g., the 50D takes 2x as many photos on a charge as the K10D/K20D. You just can't do all the fancy stuff w/ AA's any more...

12-01-2008, 11:38 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Minolta batteries fit fine. I have a backup battery that is a Minolta...slightly less capacity, but works fine.

And I also do mean the other features (live view, long life, fast cycling popup flash, etc.) that people expect nowadays. E.g., the 50D takes 2x as many photos on a charge as the K10D/K20D. You just can't do all the fancy stuff w/ AA's any more...
Sorry, Ken, but you are in a big error here:

K20D:

"Number of recordable images: approx. 530 (50% use Flash) , approx. 740 (Normal Recording)"

K20D : Digital SLR Cameras : PENTAX

Canon 50D:

Normal Shooting 73F/23C No flash: 800 pictures | 50% flash use: 640 pictures

Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera

So in fact is 800/740 = 8% more - no flash
and
640/530 = 21% more for 50% flash usage

And in fact the Pentax's battery holds more energy than Canon's but probably the electronics inside are not as energy efficient. One last thing: with the same battery K20 is more economical than K10D.

Regards,
Radu
12-01-2008, 11:55 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Sorry, Ken, but you are in a big error here:
Sorry, you're right. I was thinking the D300...1800 shots supposedly:
Nikon D300 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Probably more like 1500, but it shows how far they're advancing. It's probably because it has a bigger battery though...
It also has a higher speed mode if you connect up the battery grip...the frame rate goes up because they somehow figured out how to use both batteries at the same time.
12-01-2008, 12:43 PM   #22
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I think the real question in all this murkiness is what does Hoya plan to do with Pentax? I agree with the Q2 expectation of new cameras. Stock levels (and pricing) for both K20 and K200 are dropping, and the K-m is essentially the K200D without weatherproofing and with a help button, and MORE FPS. This is like BMW putting an M series engine into the 318i, and charging people less for it. If the K200D wasn't selling well before, the Km has pretty much killed off it's chances.

And if they have stuff in the pipeline, then that's a good thing. Let's just hope they do. I don't think Hoya would go to the trouble of reinventing the Pentax brand (starting with their website, and a new slogan) just to pull the plug on us. People always need an alternative, and Pentax is in the best position to be that alternative, even with Olympus and Sony on their tail. Pentax will likely never break through that "Canon or Nikon" conception, not for awhile anyways unless they come out with some stellar equipment, and even then, it's the name more than the equipment that gets people's emotions. They could still stand to do very well in all of this.

Actually, this reminds me a lot of the Piaggio crisis. Everyone thought Vespa was going to be left for dead, and look how that turned out.
12-01-2008, 01:27 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
I don't think Hoya would go to the trouble of reinventing the Pentax brand (starting with their website, and a new slogan) just to pull the plug on us.
I am of the understanding that the SLR segment of Pentax Imaging was turning a tidy profit (but they were losing money on P&S). Add to that the fact that Hoya as (again, afaik) a fairly conservatively run Japanese company, which makes them likely to take a long term view.

I don't think they're investing funds, but I believe they have installed some new senior management, and are restructuring Pentax Imaging for better profitability.

12-01-2008, 06:08 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpopham Quote
I am of the understanding that the SLR segment of Pentax Imaging was turning a tidy profit (but they were losing money on P&S). Add to that the fact that Hoya as (again, afaik) a fairly conservatively run Japanese company, which makes them likely to take a long term view.

I don't think they're investing funds, but I believe they have installed some new senior management, and are restructuring Pentax Imaging for better profitability.
On the contrary, Hoya has a long standing reputation of not being a conservatively run organization. If you wanted to see conservatism, you only had to look at the previous board of Pentax of old, the very people who kept to a losing strategy of coming out with crappy AF film cameras and slow to change in a changing market. They left a legacy of Pentax being a weakened player among photographic companies. Without Hoya, Pentax would likely to have ended up defunct like Contax, Yashica, Bronica, etc.

I think with the current economic uncertainty, sticking to a 2 camera strategy for the entry level segment made little sense as the K200D and K-m would have cannibalized each other's sales due to product overlap. In a way dropping the K200D makes the choice simpler for the end user, especially for the newcomers who are entering DSLR photography who want a basic and small camera. Even an entry level camera today have features that previous cameras in the past never had, so I'm pretty sure sticking with the K-m is a wise move.

Last edited by creampuff; 12-01-2008 at 06:18 PM.
12-01-2008, 07:30 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
On the contrary, Hoya has a long standing reputation of not being a conservatively run organization. If you wanted to see conservatism, you only had to look at the previous board of Pentax of old, the very people who kept to a losing strategy of coming out with crappy AF film cameras and slow to change in a changing market.
Sorry, you're right, and I phrased that badly - I meant conservative in terms of financial operation of a business, not in the general business sense.

And I agree with you completely.
12-01-2008, 08:30 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
That's the old Pentax pace. I think and hope that the influence from Hoya and Samsung is leading towards a faster paced model cycle.

I can't see the need for an K200 now. Sure some people would prefer it but in numbers it can't be many. My guess is a K300 and a K30 in Q2. Both lifted half a notch meaning the K30 will be positioned in the same class as nikon D300.
Last year the K200D moved up the ladder compared to the old K100D. It was more expensive and had weathersealing. In a sense, the K-m is the real succesor to the K100D.

My guess for the K300 is that they will use the CMOS sensor. They have to if they want to compete with the 450D and D90, because the Sony 10MP CCD still doesn't suppport liveview. And the 14.2MP CCD seems reserved for Sony only (and frankly nobody wants it due to unimpressive high iso performance). The K300D will probably be upgraded to 3.5 or 4fps to keep up with the competition and will get the new AF module from the K-m. Otherwise it should be quite similar to 450D/D90.

The K30 may keep the same 14.6MP sensor or upgrade to 16MP (not much difference but it's still good for marketing). It may reach 5fps. It should have the new LCD screen, 2 years after Nikon & Sony and 1 year after Canon, at least!
I hope they will be able to keep the same K10D/K20D but I don't think it will. They should offer a good kit lens like the Nikon 18-105 but weathersealed this time. Let's also hope they will find one killer new feature, just like the 14.6MP CMOS was for the K20D or the weathersealing/SR was for the K10D. And keep a reasonable price of course...
12-01-2008, 10:49 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
That remains to be seen. R&D can conceivably churn out 5 FPS+ using AA's, I think. It's probably a bigger question if AA's can support live view and video recording (future trends) while keeping AA battery life decent.

I The combination of AA batteries and weather-seals, plus the relatively very affordable price (comparing MSRPs between all cameras) is why I'm using one now.
I can't understand the love of AA's. I bought 2 aftermarket rechargables for my K10 and keep one in the bag, one on the charger and one in the camera and around and around they go
with minimal cost. when I had a *istD, the official batteries cost a kings ransom, and the AA's lasted for 15 minutes, and none lasted past the first time I forgot to unplug the download cable.

To me a good rechargable is a 'feature' not a curse.
12-02-2008, 12:26 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
The K300D will probably be upgraded to 3.5 or 4fps to keep up with the competition and will get the new AF module from the K-m. Otherwise it should be quite similar to 450D/D90.
I was under the impression that there is no new module, just optimized algorithm. And even recently someone mentioned that the AF isn't that much better than the k200...
12-02-2008, 04:22 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
I can't understand the love of AA's. I bought 2 aftermarket rechargables for my K10 and keep one in the bag, one on the charger and one in the camera and around and around they go
with minimal cost. when I had a *istD, the official batteries cost a kings ransom, and the AA's lasted for 15 minutes, and none lasted past the first time I forgot to unplug the download cable.

To me a good rechargable is a 'feature' not a curse.
As long as I'm arround civilization I'm perfectly content with proprietary batteriestoo. But not so long ago I went on a 14 day expedition. We were 4 days on the road and 10 days in the mountains (3 hours walk away from the nearest civilization). I took 2 Pentax plus 2 aftermarket batteries and was still byting my nails. As it turned out I had a just cause. It took 3,5 batteries to fill 7gb of raw shots with K10D. How long will they last next time? Had I used K200D I could take rechargeable AAs (300-800 shots) and two packs of Energizer lithiums (1000 shots per pack) that I'm willing to bet my life on.
Next time I'm going away from civilization I'll seriously reconsider taking along a camera with propietary batteries.
Oh and about *Ist D, the bundled batteries are not "official" and rechargeable AAs cost much less than Pentax D-Li50.

To me AA means reliability, availability and compatibility with flash batteries.
12-02-2008, 05:06 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
I can't understand the love of AA's. I bought 2 aftermarket rechargables for my K10 and keep one in the bag, one on the charger and one in the camera and around and around they go
with minimal cost. when I had a *istD, the official batteries cost a kings ransom, and the AA's lasted for 15 minutes, and none lasted past the first time I forgot to unplug the download cable.

To me a good rechargable is a 'feature' not a curse.
We probably just have different priorities.

I very much appreciate what proprietary batteries bring to the table - steady, constant power supply, holds more charge, etc. The only thing I don't appreciate about them is that once manufacturers (generic manufacturers included) move away from certain battery models in the future (replaced by other proprietary batteries), that's a death knell already for cameras using that specific battery once the supplies dry up.

Consider this. I just came from our local camera center today to have my K1000 fixed. While waiting for my camera, I was browsing the other stores nearby. There were customers (five by my count) who were looking for replacement batteries for their ancient-by-today's-standards digicams and video cameras, but sadly for them, those proprietary batteries have gone out of production (interesting note is that all those customers were looking for Sony batteries, and I believe Sony is the worst in keeping battery models current). So now they have unusable cameras, though only because no batteries were available now.

It's great that Pentax kept the K10D battery in use as the K20D battery. That's thumbs-up for me. All I hope for is that that battery be made a standard so other manufacturers would be able to pick it up and use it in their own devices, be it a camera or whatever, because I'm pretty sure a lot of the DSLRs we have today, if handled properly (and with luck), will still be perfectly usable (or at least able to be fixed with minor issues) years from now, as long as the power options are there, too.

I don't mind the K200D successor using another type of battery, as long as that battery will easily be available years from now.

And no, I never said that a proprietary battery is a curse.
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