[Kunzite]

You're wasting your time, Alex.

You're right.

[biz-engineer]

New products selling is a good thing IMO.

IMO, Ricoh does a rather good job with releasing new Pentax products despite bad market conditions. I am quite impressed that Ricoh keeps making apsc dedicated lenses such as the DA* 11-18 and the DA*16-50 and release premium full frame lenses in the meantime such as the D-FA*85 and the D-FA 70-210. And the roadmap indicates two new FF lenses (D-FA21, and something like D-FA 70-300). My experience of new D-FA lenses is that they are right there up to current state of the arts camera optics. If the Pentax business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't continue to develop and release new products.

That said, it breaks my heart when I see long time loyal Pentaxians quitely skipping the Pentax offer and getting into mirrorless. When I compare the current Pentax offer, it's no so bad compared to the MILC offers, and so, I imagine that the Pentax loyalty isn't as strong as we may think after all (I have to keep note of that observation for myself).

[reh321]

That was a rhetorical question, because the answer is obvious.

Thank you for finally clarifying what you were saying/asking.

[jersey]

That said, it breaks my heart when I see long time loyal Pentaxians quitely skipping the Pentax offer and getting into mirrorless. When I compare the current Pentax offer, it's no so bad compared to the MILC offers, and so, I imagine that the Pentax loyalty isn't as strong as we may think after all (I have to keep note of that observation for myself).

Sometimes it is simply more sensible to use small MILC then bigger and heavier DSLR. Sometimes it is just "fashion", people are not always able to withstand pressure from marketing or friends. Plus lots were disappointed with K-3/3 and 16-50 prices wanting Pentax to remain cheap brand. The last ones are not a current Pentax customer target anyway so them staying with brand would mean at most buying second hand lenses and bodies - not really profitable for Ricoh.


And we also do not know how many people go the other way (from MILC to DSLR), but there are new Pentaxians poping out here from time to time so maybe it is not that bad.

[phoebus]

IMO, Ricoh does a rather good job with releasing new Pentax products despite bad market conditions. I am quite impressed that Ricoh keeps making apsc dedicated lenses such as the DA* 11-18 and the DA*16-50 and release premium full frame lenses in the meantime such as the D-FA*85 and the D-FA 70-210. And the roadmap indicates two new FF lenses (D-FA21, and something like D-FA 70-300). My experience of new D-FA lenses is that they are right there up to current state of the arts camera optics. If the Pentax business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't continue to develop and release new products.

That said, it breaks my heart when I see long time loyal Pentaxians quietly skipping the Pentax offer and getting into mirrorless. When I compare the current Pentax offer, it's no so bad compared to the MILC offers, and so, I imagine that the Pentax loyalty isn't as strong as we may think after all (I have to keep note of that observation for myself).

The advantages of MILC are not always so great.

I doubted Pentax would ever make an effective wildlife camera, so last year I bought an Olympus E-M1X, due to its reputation as the ultimate wildlife camera. That reputation is backed by lots of photos on-line and my wife's experience with her E-M1 and E-M1ii. The lens range is extensive, relatively compact and the PRO range is AW. And the E-M1X is truly a well specified camera. The tracking focus is good, the focus speed is impressive and all the lenses have quick and quiet motors. It can do hand-held focus stacking and the IBIS is unbelievably good, plus it can take still photos at movie rate...

But, it has all the disadvantages of an MILC. Even with optimum settings, the viewfinder has a finite frame rate that means fast moving objects flicker. When the camera is in standby, there is a noticeable delay in getting the viewfinder alive. And it has (needs) two batteries to give it a good endurance, given the high power demand of all that processing power and EVF/sensor. And weighs the same as my Pentax K-1 and the 12-bit raw files have far less malleability.

Us Pentaxians know good ergonomics - Olympus could do with some help there too; control position on the E-M1X is OK, but not great.

So where am I going with these ramblings? Two weeks ago I took the financial hit of trading the E-M1X in for the K-3iii.

I am straight away getting almost as good AF-C results with the K-3iii as I had with E-M1X, but the experience is sooo much nicer. OVF works all the time and I can put the camera to my eye, half press - focus - shoot almost instantaneously. The K-3iii wakes from standby amazingly quickly. The DA* 300 is slightly lighter than the Olympus 300/4 and half the price - though the Olympus does have in-lens IS and is just slightly better optically.

Maybe it's just me, but I think there is still plenty of life in DSLR/OVF.

MILC Pros:

• No focus adjustment required - ever
• m4/3 format better suited for macro/extreme telephoto
• Hardware can be smaller/lighter
• Quiet/silent

DSLR Pros:

• Lower power demand when not actually taking a photo
• Zero delay/always operating viewfinder
• Phase detect focus better optimised with no affect on image quality
• LV can give MILC experience, MILC can't give OVF experience...

Pentax Pros:

• Excellent ergonomics
• Usable RAW files
• Build quality

I'm still, truly, a Pentaxian!

[BigMackCam]

IMO, Ricoh does a rather good job with releasing new Pentax products despite bad market conditions. I am quite impressed that Ricoh keeps making apsc dedicated lenses such as the DA* 11-18 and the DA*16-50 and release premium full frame lenses in the meantime such as the D-FA*85 and the D-FA 70-210. And the roadmap indicates two new FF lenses (D-FA21, and something like D-FA 70-300). My experience of new D-FA lenses is that they are right there up to current state of the arts camera optics. If the Pentax business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't continue to develop and release new products.

That said, it breaks my heart when I see long time loyal Pentaxians quitely skipping the Pentax offer and getting into mirrorless. When I compare the current Pentax offer, it's no so bad compared to the MILC offers, and so, I imagine that the Pentax loyalty isn't as strong as we may think after all (I have to keep note of that observation for myself).

Brand loyalty's all well and good - and an easy thing to claim - when its products generally satisfy the customer's requirements, preferences, budget and support expectations; but it generally flies straight out of the window when they don't, unless the customer's financial constraints dictate otherwise. Most folks will shoot what they want, need and/or can afford. I'd guess that if you looked at the nett annual leavers and joiners as a percentage of total Pentax ownership, and compared with the same data for other DSLR / MILC brands, the numbers wouldn't be wildly different...

[reh321]

Brand loyalty's all well and good - and an easy thing to claim - when its products generally satisfy the customer's requirements, preferences, budget and support expectations; but it generally flies straight out of the window when they don't, unless the customer's financial constraints dictate otherwise. Most folks will shoot what they want, need and/or can afford. I'd guess that if you looked at the nett annual leavers and joiners as a percentage of total Pentax ownership, and compared with the same data for other DSLR / MILC brands, the numbers wouldn't be wildly different...

You do have to account for people like me. After using Pentax for 16 years, I moved to Canon in 1995 because I really really liked their quiet EF/usm lenses - then I came back to Pentax in 2015 because I was let completely down twice by their Rebel bodies. I still love Canon lenses - I don’t believe Pentax or Nikon can still compete with them - but I will stick now with Pentax because of their lower-tier bodies.

[Rondec]

Sometimes it is simply more sensible to use small MILC then bigger and heavier DSLR. Sometimes it is just "fashion", people are not always able to withstand pressure from marketing or friends. Plus lots were disappointed with K-3/3 and 16-50 prices wanting Pentax to remain cheap brand. The last ones are not a current Pentax customer target anyway so them staying with brand would mean at most buying second hand lenses and bodies - not really profitable for Ricoh.


And we also do not know how many people go the other way (from MILC to DSLR), but there are new Pentaxians poping out here from time to time so maybe it is not that bad.

I do think it is important to consider lenses along with camera bodies when deciding if something is smaller. If you are looking for similar focal lengths and aperture/performance, when you include a lens, there often is less difference than one might think.

[repaap]

Sometimes it is simply more sensible to use small MILC then bigger and heavier DSLR. Sometimes it is just "fashion", people are not always able to withstand pressure from marketing or friends. Plus lots were disappointed with K-3/3 and 16-50 prices wanting Pentax to remain cheap brand. The last ones are not a current Pentax customer target anyway so them staying with brand would mean at most buying second hand lenses and bodies - not really profitable for Ricoh.


And we also do not know how many people go the other way (from MILC to DSLR), but there are new Pentaxians poping out here from time to time so maybe it is not that bad.

I think that pentax did say them selves that they are going to make the whole system more interesting option for professional photographers too. If they don't update DA*&DFA* lenses and make high end models like K-3III and K-1III(should be coming), then that won't intrest professionals/advanced amateurs. I'm considering my self as advanced amateur, and I'm happy that they are making this now properly, all of it. After all we do have also uite good cheap alternatives for * -lenses. But DA* line is badly in need of refreshment like this new DA*16-50PLM.

So it is not 'cheap brand' anymore, but that is not just bad thing.