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08-23-2021, 08:38 AM - 4 Likes   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
It's a pleasure to hear that you did that. My favourite photos of eclipses, full moons and suchlike are always the ones where the real focus of interest is in the people watching on the ground.
This is my favorite shot from that 2017 eclipse. It's of an Eclipse cultist at a remote compound in Virginia, bowing before the sun-God in his ceremonial headgear.

Okay, it's actually my nephew staging an absurd pose with a homemade mylar-and-grocery-bag eclipse viewer. Doesn't even matter that it's out of focus and poorly exposed, that almost adds to it.

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08-23-2021, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Since you're presenting your photos as professional and a paragon of quality...

That photo of the Porsche that you posted is quite pedestrian and could have easily been taken with a cell phone. To wit:
  1. It's a poor angle of the car, somewhere between a full-on profile and 3/4 rear view that fails to capture the evocative curves of the car.
  2. The upward pointing nose of the car isn't doing it any favors either, stuck somewhere between being a strong horizontal and a more energetic angle that implies movement/action.
  3. The car is pointing towards the edge of the frame and the least interesting part of the photo.
  4. There is no detail in the wheels - it's crushed by shadows
  5. There is no relationship between the car and the environment it's sitting in. It looks like it was parked in a pulloff and a snapshot was taken. That slightly turned front wheel suggests that there was no thought given to either it's position or framing and no thought given to how the car relates to the scenic landscape around it.

It's a shame really. It must have been quite fun driving that car on those roads and in that place, and it's certainly worth trying to capture that feeling with photography. There's a potentially nice photo here - from in front of the car pointing at the nose with the curving road behind it in the background, perhaps a short telephoto to compress the view. Or stepped back with a wide angle so that the car becomes smaller and interacts more with the landscape. Or reposition the car - maybe a rear shot of the car pointing towards the valley and where both the viewer and the car are admiring the landscape...that would add both visual depth and narrative depth to the shot.

I'm a magazine editor and a motojournalist with 15+ years experience. If that photo was submitted for publication, I would have asked, "Do you have a better shot?"
The biggest fault of non-professionals in my opinion is the lack of understanding about how an excellent image has an excellent background, and well thought out and deliberately framed with well established relationships between the subject and back ground. When I'm out with the amateurs, and there are lots in the park, they always seem to be watching, trying to figure out what I'm doing. I've even had a few enthusiasts following me around waiting until I leave and photographing from the same spot I just left.
I remember one of their wives asking her husband what he was doing? He said, "I'm just following him and doing what he does." A couple of comparison images will easily show you how critical taking care of the back ground is. Really, it's just as important as getting the right view of the subject. A great image is never half right. Foreground, subject and background all have to be excellent. The most common mistake in photography is to only pay attention to the subject, which is usually less than 1/3rd of the image.

Some great points there.

Last edited by normhead; 08-23-2021 at 09:18 AM.
08-23-2021, 09:26 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When I'm out with the amateurs, and there are lots in the park, they always seem to be watching, trying to figure out what I'm doing. I've even had a few enthusiasts following me around waiting until I leave and photographing from the same spot I just left.
The deception trick I'm using when smartphone come to my spot, I use 35 to 60mm focal length so that a smartphone can't frame my shot, as smartphone usually use 27mm and eventually 70mm when they have two lenses. Or go right up between 200 and 450mm that a smartphone can't reach, they are lost.

---------- Post added 23-08-21 at 18:28 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
That photo of the Porsche that you posted is quite pedestrian and could have easily been taken with a cell phone.
Usually Pros don't post their paid shots online due to IP rights, unless allowed by customers.
08-23-2021, 09:36 AM - 1 Like   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The deception trick I'm using when smartphone come to my spot, I use 35 to 60mm focal length so that a smartphone can't frame my shot, as smartphone usually use 27mm and eventually 70mm when they have two lenses. Or go right up between 200 and 450mm that a smartphone can't reach, they are lost.
The only guys I've had do that asked me what focal length I was using and had DSLRs. Phone users don't care what I'm doing. That's definitely a serious disadvantage to Phone photography. You can't learn from more experienced guys using better gear.

08-23-2021, 09:38 AM - 1 Like   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The deception trick I'm using when smartphone come to my spot, I use 35 to 60mm focal length so that a smartphone can't frame my shot, as smartphone usually use 27mm and eventually 70mm when they have two lenses. Or go right up between 200 and 450mm that a smartphone can't reach, they are lost.

I have a nice chat with them about what a beautiful spot it is and how lucky we are to be there in that moment of wonderful light. Don't feel any need to alpha male them with my photographic awesomeness.
08-23-2021, 10:03 AM - 1 Like   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Usually Pros don't post their paid shots online due to IP rights, unless allowed by customers.
I've never had a problem with this. I respect the agreements that I have with my publishers and the smarter ones recognize that I'm helping to build their audience by talking about them on my platforms.

And it's still no excuse to post a mediocre photo and pass it off as top quality. All the pros that I know take high quality non-paid photos too.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
I have a nice chat with them about what a beautiful spot it is and how lucky we are to be there in that moment of wonderful light. Don't feel any need to alpha male them with my photographic awesomeness.
Agreed. I love sharing my joy of photography. I love giving folks little composition tips and watch the lightbulb go off in their head when they see it and the effect that it has.

I was recently at an event shooting and a young Boy Scout came up to me and asked me about my cameras. He shoots with his phone and showed me some of his work. I gave him all the encouragement that I could.
08-23-2021, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #187
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Same here on many occasions, the young folk always get more attention than the older "set in their ways" guys.

08-23-2021, 10:56 AM - 1 Like   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Since you're presenting your photos as professional and a paragon of quality...

That photo of the Porsche that you posted is quite pedestrian and could have easily been taken with a cell phone. To wit:
  1. It's a poor angle of the car, somewhere between a full-on profile and 3/4 rear view that fails to capture the evocative curves of the car.
  2. The upward pointing nose of the car isn't doing it any favors either, stuck somewhere between being a strong horizontal and a more energetic angle that implies movement/action.
  3. The car is pointing towards the edge of the frame and the least interesting part of the photo.
  4. There is no detail in the wheels - it's crushed by shadows
  5. There is no relationship between the car and the environment it's sitting in. It looks like it was parked in a pulloff and a snapshot was taken. That slightly turned front wheel suggests that there was no thought given to either it's position or framing and no thought given to how the car relates to the scenic landscape around it.

It's a shame really. It must have been quite fun driving that car on those roads and in that place, and it's certainly worth trying to capture that feeling with photography. There's a potentially nice photo here - from in front of the car pointing at the nose with the curving road behind it in the background, perhaps a short telephoto to compress the view. Or stepped back with a wide angle so that the car becomes smaller and interacts more with the landscape. Or reposition the car - maybe a rear shot of the car pointing towards the valley and where both the viewer and the car are admiring the landscape...that would add both visual depth and narrative depth to the shot.

I'm a magazine editor and a motojournalist with 15+ years experience. If that photo was submitted for publication, I would have asked, "Do you have a better shot?"
Thanks for the thoughts. It was taken well before I was a full time pro. I fast discovered that landscapes, and landscapes alone were my forte.
08-23-2021, 11:04 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by SFTphotography Quote
Thanks for the thoughts. It was taken well before I was a full time pro. I fast discovered that landscapes, and landscapes alone were my forte.
And how is that going for you?
08-23-2021, 11:24 AM   #190
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Wow…

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The second and third of those are actually quite doable with a decent smartphone these days, unless you lifted shadows a good deal (and in that case, HDR might have taken care of it). The first one is a longish exposure and I'm not sure how good it would turn out.

You'll obviously see the problems with phone IQ if you go over laptop screen size but, again, that is not where the vast majority of people look at photos.
And even the first one is doable if you use an iPhone. You shoot in what is called a live photo, then you edit, go into effects, and you can choose motion blur.

And nowadays, with the iPhone 11 and 12 pro models, we can shoot in raw and have huge editing capabilities available to us. The photos you see here are completely doable on an iPhone, and even printable at very high-quality at 11 x 14.

Yes, DSLRs are better. But…



Cheers,
Cameron
08-23-2021, 11:32 AM - 1 Like   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The deception trick I'm using when smartphone come to my spot, I use 35 to 60mm focal length so that a smartphone can't frame my shot, as smartphone usually use 27mm and eventually 70mm when they have two lenses. Or go right up between 200 and 450mm that a smartphone can't reach, they are lost.
Or you could just take the shot you like and let them do what they want and not worry about it.

Also, the newer phones have cameras that include optical zoom. So I wouldn't be so sure your tricks will continue to work.
08-23-2021, 11:58 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
The photos you see here are completely doable on an iPhone, and even printable at very high-quality at 11 x 14.
On paper yes. I remember very well my disappointment when I upgraded my compact cameras from 2Mpixels to 7Mpix, to 10Mpix etc... the quality just didn't scale with the number of Mpix. When I bought a DSLR, it felt like upgrading from a tiny car to a truck engine with big cylinders and high torque. With my phone it's the same, I think I can shoot 20Mpix on my phone, but it's not even comparable to a Pentax K5 16Mpix. There are even phones with 108Mpixels, I would call them 108 Marketing Mpix.
08-23-2021, 12:02 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And how is that going for you?
Just fine.
08-23-2021, 12:16 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
On paper yes. I remember very well my disappointment when I upgraded my compact cameras from 2Mpixels to 7Mpix, to 10Mpix etc... the quality just didn't scale with the number of Mpix. When I bought a DSLR, it felt like upgrading from a tiny car to a truck engine with big cylinders and high torque. With my phone it's the same, I think I can shoot 20Mpix on my phone, but it's not even comparable to a Pentax K5 16Mpix. There are even phones with 108Mpixels, I would call them 108 Marketing Mpix.
The super high megapixel phone cameras aren't to shoot 108 or 50 or whatever Mpix photos, they're so that the processing engine can use multiple photo sites for better noise performance and color fidelity, and downsample. They'll take multiple 50 Mpix photos, combine them using various AI algorithms, then downsample to something like 12 Mpix.

I don't know of any phones that will take a 100Mpix photo with a tiny sensor and just turn that directly into a jpeg for display on a giant monitor, I'm sure it would look rather poor.
08-23-2021, 12:54 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
The super high megapixel phone cameras aren't to shoot 108 or 50 or whatever Mpix photos, they're so that the processing engine can use multiple photo sites for better noise performance and color fidelity, and downsample. They'll take multiple 50 Mpix photos, combine them using various AI algorithms, then downsample to something like 12 Mpix.

I don't know of any phones that will take a 100Mpix photo with a tiny sensor and just turn that directly into a jpeg for display on a giant monitor, I'm sure it would look rather poor.
I've got a Samsung with a 64mp camera. I remain thoroughly unimpressed with it beyond the phone. It's fine to send a picture via whatsapp to someone of a snap shot - but I cannot envisage someone even half interested in photography not wanting an entry level camera to start off with.


In saying that - I accept the point that most photographers I encounter out shooting landcapes, or booking tuition turn up with non entry level gear. The 5d Mk IV, D850 level of camera seems more common place now than the amatuer D5000 sort of camera. Back, pre 2020 if you want to touristy locations you'd see lots of folk donning entry level camera's snapping away. Some might never move on, but a lot would progress to becoming more serious about their photography and start to invest in the system.

An entry level camera is like an entry level car - it's a way of enticing users to the make. With Wifi/Bluetooth, pairing a DSLR with a tablet/smart phone should in theory be simple and allow the best of both.
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